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One Piece Vs Discussion Thread: Power, Strengths, Abilities etc.

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[Reply] #1,981
08-17-2013 06:59 PM
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NiTian ErXing a.k.a Grand Marshal
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#1981

page 100!

What now hellfighter?


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Pocket Rocket wrote:

RyanBurnsTheHaruhiSuzumiyaFantard wrote: Prove me wrong


They’re turned on by living things.


“Act (defiant) against Heaven (Tian).“
Strange World from Beyond

Edited 08-17-2013 06:59 PM by NiTian ErXing a.k.a Grand Marshal
[Reply] #1,982
08-17-2013 08:07 PM
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wat

Well, at least I get to post on the 100th page.

[Reply] #1,983
08-17-2013 08:09 PM
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Redx
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Since it’s page 100 I feel I should do something special. I’ll probably post some of my rants on One Piece later.

Edit:

Please keep in mind that this is just a theory not an absolute fact. This theory is solely to open people’s minds to the mere possibility that Whitebeard’s abilities once reached a global scale during Roger’s Era. This is quite long so I’d like you to pay pretty close attention and read it with an open mind. Again it’s just a theory discussing the possibility not a 100% confirmed fact.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I was wondering if it was possible to estimate how strong Whitebeard was in his prime. I started off thinking about his past and that got me thinking about Roger. Then I asked myself, why is it that people hate Roger so much? it’s clear that the ones who hate him have never had any direct interaction with Roger. Yet there was so much hatred for him seen in Ace’s flashbacks. What could Roger have done that was so terrible? is it possible that he somehow did something that affected everyone in the world indirectly?(other than starting the golden pirate age) could it have simply been some crimes against the world government? Nah, it couldn’t be anything that simple. If that were the case then why isn’t luffy hated to the same degree? He’s committed quite a few criminal acts but he obviously isn’t viciously hated like Roger was despite being a pirate. Then I thought back to Marineford and remembered Sengoku’s statement about Whitebeard being able to destroy the world. Sengoku was the Fleet Admiral of the marines at the time and was present during the times of Roger. Had he seen something that would lead him to believe that Newgate could do such a thing? it’s not as though he would shout out a lie to his fellow marines. The scene showed just how much of a threat he considered WB to be. It is clear that WB had at one point cause some sort of world-wide calamity, but what would push him to do so? WB certainly wouldn’t do such a thing just for fun. It had to be Roger. Battling Roger is the only thing that would push someone like Newgate to use his abilities to such an extreme. Then it started to make sense as to why people hated Roger so much. Newgate and Roger’s fight had caused world-wide devastation and they were both hated as a result. This is evident in how relieved the citizens of the world seem to be after WB’s death. This hypothesis is even further supported by all the implications before and during marineford made by elder citizens from around the world and trusted marine officers alike. Here are some examples:


This elderly man who is on an island in another part of the world, kilometers away from marineford clearly states this it would be best for EVERYONE if WB didn’t show up to marineford. If WB wasn’t capable of worldwide destruction at one point in time then why would he say this? why would he even care? Surely he would be safe at such a distance right?



Then theres this. A man clearly suggests that the world may be gone tomorrow merely because of the war between WB and the marines. This is a direct implication of world-wide devastation. Clearly some event in the past has brought him to believe this. Why else would he make such a claim?



Heres another good example. Whitebeard’s quakes reaching islands from different parts of the world. You can even see the mountains shaking in the bottom panel from the mere aftermath of his quake.



Tsuru (bottom right panel) who is a Vice Admiral herself further backs the notion of Whitebeard being capable of causing a world-wide cataclysm by stating, “even if I retreated to the ends of the sea, I wouldn’t find a place I could call safe."



Over and over again we keep seeing this notion of the World being at risk, the entire world being in danger because of whitebeard and his Gura Gura no mi. There is no way that Oda is having his characters reiterate the possible destruction of the world for no reason. Especially when we take into account the fact that Oda has a great foreshadowing track record and makes due on his hints at future events. Heres a good example of this:

http://imgur.com/a/tVXn7

From this we can tell that Oda never really forgets things he hinted about despite the fact that he will foreshadow some things hundreds of chapters prior to their reveal or explanation. Also according to Oda the entire series of One Piece was completed before it was published meaning he’s planned out just about everything beginning to end. So there is no way he’s having characters hint at global scale destruction over and over and over again without a reason.


To sum things up this is basically why I believe that Whitebeard in his prime was in fact capable of destroying the world. Whether this is merely life wiping or flat out planet busting I have no idea. Though seeing as how Oda is a huge DBZ fanboy I imagine it to look something like when Vegeta shook the planet when he was powering up to fight Goku for the first time. The planet was shaking and that caused many people to think it was the end of the world. It’s quite possible that Newgate’s abilities produced a similar effect.


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Edited 02-21-2014 04:42 PM by Redx
[Reply] #1,984
08-17-2013 09:41 PM
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Redx wrote: Since it’s page 100 I feel I should do something special. I’ll probably post some of my rants on One Piece later.



True got to make this special I will try doing a calc here and posting it. How about something from marineford? That will help us in the future as well I think.

Any suggestions/ideas guys?


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Pocket Rocket wrote:

RyanBurnsTheHaruhiSuzumiyaFantard wrote: Prove me wrong


They’re turned on by living things.


“Act (defiant) against Heaven (Tian).“
Strange World from Beyond

Edited 08-17-2013 09:41 PM by NiTian ErXing a.k.a Grand Marshal
[Reply] #1,985
08-17-2013 09:44 PM
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About the whole logia’s being natural shit;



Official viz translation.


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Edited 08-17-2013 09:45 PM by PandaG
[Reply] #1,986
08-17-2013 09:49 PM
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NiTian ErXing a.k.a Grand Marshal
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PandaG wrote: About the whole logia’s being natural shit;



Official viz translation.



Thank god Panda man just link the source with this and which SBC, databook, etc. and put it in the OP. Since so many niggas keep bringing up this natural argument against DF all the time. Will be really useful.


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Pocket Rocket wrote:

RyanBurnsTheHaruhiSuzumiyaFantard wrote: Prove me wrong


They’re turned on by living things.


“Act (defiant) against Heaven (Tian).“
Strange World from Beyond

[Reply] #1,987
08-17-2013 09:55 PM
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PandaG wrote: About the whole logia’s being natural shit;



Official viz translation.

Fuckin' finally. How’d you managed to get your hands on that Panda?


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[Reply] #1,988
08-17-2013 09:56 PM
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I paid $3.99 for an online official translation of volume 30.


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[Reply] #1,989
08-17-2013 09:58 PM
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lol. Nice.


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[Reply] #1,990
08-17-2013 10:17 PM
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Even though that solves the logia problem ...

the question asked made absolutely no sense. Am I the only one seeing this? Sure, Enel says that paramecias retain their original shape, but then the guy starts saying that logias don’t retain their shape and that this somehow contradicts Enel’s statement. In reality, though, the statement has nothing to do with logias since it was about paramecias.

Then Oda answers it by listing Devil Fruits and saying logias are more powerful.

Am I just not seeing something?

Edited 08-17-2013 10:18 PM by PeacefulChaos
[Reply] #1,991
08-17-2013 10:38 PM
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PeacefulChaos wrote: Even though that solves the logia problem ...

the question asked made absolutely no sense. Am I the only one seeing this? Sure, Enel says that paramecias retain their original shape, but then the guy starts saying that logias don’t retain their shape and that this somehow contradicts Enel’s statement. In reality, though, the statement has nothing to do with logias since it was about paramecias.

Then Oda answers it by listing Devil Fruits and saying logias are more powerful.

Am I just not seeing something?

The person asking the question noticed that logias are malleable and can disperse/reform. And that Luffy(a paramecia type) does not. He was basically asking what the difference was since at the time the 3 classifications of Devil Fruits were unknown.

[Reply] #1,992
08-17-2013 10:45 PM
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PandaG wrote: I paid $3.99 for an online official translation of volume 30.


Instead of that you could of went to the wiki.


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[Reply] #1,993
08-17-2013 10:48 PM
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Pirate Luffy wrote:

PandaG wrote: I paid $3.99 for an online official translation of volume 30.


Instead of that you could of went to the wiki.

Most people don’t accept the wiki as valid information despite how accurate they are. They do still have some errors here and there.

[Reply] #1,994
08-17-2013 10:53 PM
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Pirate Luffy wrote:

PandaG wrote: I paid $3.99 for an online official translation of volume 30.


Instead of that you could of went to the wiki.



If only that was all it took. People tend to not accept info unless it’s presented directly from the volume, especially if it’s from a wiki, which can be freely edited. Besides, I like Skypeia arc, so being able to read higher quality scans is no problem.


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Edited 08-17-2013 10:53 PM by PandaG
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08-17-2013 10:54 PM
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No I mean they had the sbs’s there and pictures too.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30


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[Reply] #1,996
08-17-2013 10:57 PM
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Heres an old rant of mine. Some of you(Panda, GoGon, and Hibiki) probably remember this one.

Redx wrote: The low end I’ll be addressing here is the scene where Luffy gets tied up by rope during Fishman island.



I will also briefly address Zoro’s low end of being tied up by chains. I don’t think I need to post many scans for Zoro though.



For Luffy I think this person summed it up rather nicely.

Player4 wrote:
Also Luffy was not concerned with the situation at all he wasn’t even taking it seriously Luffy doesn’t get all bent out of shape over stuff like that. Why do you think he almost always gets tied up? Because he doesn’t care. The filler arc although filler explained it pretty well Luffy said “I escape when I feel like escaping” It may have been filler but it described Luffy to a “T” He is a simple easy going guy



The Filler arc he mentions is actually One Piece TV special #2, but regardless the point is that Luffy is an easy going guy who completely refuses to exert himself unless he absolutely has to. This makes sense when looking back at when he was stuck between the buildings on water 7.




As you can see here Luffy ends up stuck between buildings and instead of just ripping the buildings apart like we later learn that he can he instead chooses to merely wriggle his way out of the situation. To reiterate: Luffy is far too easy-going to want to exert himself unless he has to. The fact that he also refuses to fight against fodder villagers/innocents and instead chooses to run away from them rather than fight is further proof of this notion.

However the argument can be made that Luffy getting tied up by rope in a verse heavily oriented by Toonforce is not the same as getting tied up with ordinary rope as “seemingly” ordinary rope in One Piece is enough to hold together despite the weight of a few massive sea creatures putting stress on it.




In conclusion, Luffy only allows himself to get tied up because of his easy-going nature and only chooses to escape when “shit gets real” as seen when he immediately ripped apart those skyscraper sized buildings when he learned of

Robin’s impending death

. It should be noted that he was stuck for quite some time before preforming that feat.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now with Zoro I believe it’s a similar case more involving his choice on how to escape. In my opinion just as Luffy refuses to escape unless he actually has to(by doing so with brute force as he is a brute force fighter) Zoro as a swordsman simply prefers to cut his way out of “sticky situations”. My logic behind this is simple. Luffy and Zoro are portrayed to be on similar levels of strength, intellect, and personal ideology. Someone with Zoro’s level of strength should easily be able to get himself unstuck from the chimney he was in without any effort but he didn’t. It is also remarkably impressive that he managed to cut the chimney plus the entire building while barely being able to move only his wrist. The same applies to the situation on Fishman island. Logically Zoro could have just ripped his way out of the chains with brute strength seeing as how Fishmen who were notably weaker than him could do the same. However given his prideful nature as a swordsman he sees it only fit that he cut his way out rather than rip his way out of the situation as seen when he requested Papuag bring him at least one of his blades so that he could “cut everything”.



So thats about it. Pretty ok explanation right?



This should have been common sense really but I felt I should explain it anyways.


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Edited 08-17-2013 11:05 PM by Redx
[Reply] #1,997
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Still doesn’t change the fact that it’s a wiki, and can be edited by pretty much anyone. That’s exactly why Stardust didn’t believe it. A translated official manga scan with the same info that can’t be edited is better.


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[Reply] #1,998
08-17-2013 10:59 PM
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Pirate Luffy wrote: No I mean they had the sbs’s there and pictures too.
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_30

Lol. No shit dude. You missed the point of what he’s trying to say. People wouldn’t accept it if it was used in an argument because it came from a wiki.


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[Reply] #1,999
08-17-2013 11:01 PM
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Heres another one.

ToonForce In One Piece

Redx wrote: I guess I’ll begin by defining what Toonforce is. Toonforce is essentially the neglect of “conventional” logic for the sake of a feat. It’s basically the author saying “I don’t care! he can do that because I said so”. Like having Buggs Bunny separate the entire state of Florida from the united states with a mere saw, or Popeye punching a continent into a damn suit case, or Popeye punching Bluto around the world with his first punch and into the moon with his second. I don’t want to get too into detail but you can imagine all the logic that is completely ignored with showings like these and that is basically what Toonforce is.

In a nutshell, Toonforce = Fuck Logic.

How does this apply to One Piece? well One Piece as I’m sure you’re already aware does not always follow “conventional” logic. There have been an almost uncountable number of instances of people, animals, and inanimate objects doing things that they really just shouldn’t be doing. Of course you can just chalk this up to fiction being fiction and you’d be correct. Toonforce is a basic component of fiction. It starts with the idea to do something that can’t happen in the real world or anywhere else. However some verses like Looney Tunes or Disney are greatly oversaturated with Toonforce which is why they are so frighteningly powerful. They completely defy conventional logic in order to preform spectacular feats. Some series like the ones I listed above will contain 100% Toonforce and others will only maintain a smaller percentage. One Piece however contains about 70%-80% Toonforce.

You can identify Toonforce in One Piece or in fiction in general during moments in fiction where characters who donít have any defined abilities somehow do things they shouldnít be able to do...but they do them anyways. Take for example fodder in One Piece. Luffy since the beginning of the series has strength that could send sea monsters reeling with a single punch.


A normal humanís brain would explode if Luffyís fist came into contact with it. Yet fodder who are seemingly nothing more than normal humans can survive these punches and only get knocked out.


They donít have any special abilities or traits that would let them survive punches like Luffyís yet they do anyways simply....because they can. Another example of this are the pretty much all the other powerful characters in One Piece who do not have a Devil Fruit. Supposedly normal humans like Zoro and Sanji preform superhuman feats of strength, durability and endurance for no other reason besides the fact that they somehow....just can.

Then theres all the random/weird/toony animals and creatures.
The Giant Dolphin, The Giant Gold Fish known as the island eater, The Lapahns that joined Daltonís army, The Hiking Bear, Dugongs that know kung fu, Bepo(kung fu bear), Pekoms(Talking lion that walks upright and has a turtle shell), The Bananawani, and most recently, living breathing talking toys.

http://static.mangainn.com/mangas/676/97763/006_01_14_2013_15_01_05.jpg
http://static2.mangainn.com/mangas/676/25077/001_10_26_2011_06_28_45.jpg
http://static.mangainn.com/mangas/676/97866/002_01_14_2013_15_15_13.jpg
http://static.mangainn.com/mangas/676/97829/001_01_14_2013_15_08_16.jpg
http://static2.mangainn.com/mangas/676/24554/002_10_26_2011_06_27_39.jpg

And buildings(solid concrete) bending for no reason.

http://static2.mangainn.com/mangas/676/24852/006_10_26_2011_06_28_17.jpg
http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One%20Piece/325%20-%20The%20Franky%20Family/One%20Piece%20-%20325%20-%2010.png

Redx wrote: Also just in case this comes up: people will often confuse Toonforce for gag and vise versa but the difference between the two is that Toonforce ignores logic in general and is done just because the author can, and gag is when the logic of the series is specifically ignored during a certain scenario and is done in order for the author to induce humor.



I think thatís about it. Iím sure you get my point. This was just the simple explanation but, you should have a decent understanding of Toonforce by now.


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08-17-2013 11:14 PM
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Lol. This one is old.

Redx wrote: Whitebeard is unreasonably downplayed though I’m sure you know this already.

People only consider the man to be city level at best when his feats clearly outclass city lvl by such a large margin that it’s not even funny.

Look at the size of the quakes he used to destroy the two Tsunami’s surrounding Marinford.


Now take a look at the size of the quake he used to split the entire island in half.


Note how the cracks in the air were much smaller than the ones he destroyed the Tsunamis with. This is a clear indication that whitebeard was holding back even on the brink of death. In fact the scene after wards implies that he held back on purpose to split the island in half in order to separate the Marines from his comrades so that the remaining Whitebeard pirates could escape. Not to mention this was the result of an indirect quake and Akainu had absorbed most if not all of the damage into his body and the island was split as a mere side effect.


The very first quakes he used at the start of the war are a clear indication that Whitebeard could have sunk Marineford at any time he desired. Just look at how the bulge he creates towers into the clouds and dwarfs the entire island.

(Note: Notice how the quakes distort the solid matter of the island without destroying it as they pass through. Newgate can apparently control his vibrations to such a degree that he can choose what to destroy and what not to destroy)

He speed is also downplayed despite him showing some rather impressive speed feats throughout the war. Whitebeard generally isn’t considered fast simply because he is big and conventional logic tells us that Big people are slow. This doesnt apply to One Piece at all when we take a look at Oars and even the Yeti Cool brothers who despite their tremendous size have shown off great speed. Another reason he&#146;s considered slow is because he lacks certain speed tropes like streak lines or afterimages. As I stated before, his speed feats regardless of their lack of flashy tropes are still quite impressive.
For example take a look at how he manages to get behind Akainu during the war.


Now this may not seem rather impressive right off the bat because of the lack of streak lines and such but when we take into consideration that Akainu as an Admiral lvl fighter with precognition wasnt able to react to Whitebeard’s surprise attack the feat becomes that much more impressive. Especially when we take into account that he was in a war surrounded by Marines an no one managed to see him until it was too late.
Then here this feat I discovered most recently when re-reading the war.


Here we clearly see that Kizaru is pretty much able to become light and enter lightspeed travel almost instantly as he blitzes past Gear 2nd Luffy and remarks that he’s slow.
Yet here we see that Whitebeard is capable of intercepting Kizaru rather easily while the latter was attempting to travel at lightspeed.


Now does this mean that Whitebeard is FTL? Maybe, maybe not. We can’t be certain of the time it takes kizaru to become light all we know is that he can do it pretty much instantly and that whitebeard was able to intercept him within that frame of time. Or Oda could be telling us that WB is in fact FTL because Kizaru is light during the scan when WB intercepts him. There is no way to know for certain because when you think about it Kizaru has not once been stated to be the fastest character in One Piece. So for all we know Oda might be trying to tell us that there are characters even faster than he is. But as I said we’ll have to wait and see but as of right now what we can conclude from these showings is that whitebeard is incredibly fast. Much faster than people give him credit for that much is certain.
And this last point regarding Whitebeard’s DC is pretty simple.(Not gonna take into account potency for this one)


I know we’ve all seen Whitebeard tilt the entire island plus the entire ocean surrounding it with a mere hand gesture but the feat is still underrated for the simple fact that “he only tilted water durrr”. Sure he only tilted water but thats only because they just so happened to be surrounded by water and not land. It’s like saying that Mihawk can’t cut anything above ice because his best feat only managed to cut ice. It’s retarded. It’s not hard to image what would happen to the landscape if they had been surrounded by a continent or even just a large land mass instead of the ocean. Whitebeard would have demolished everything with that ability.


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Edited 06-30-2014 11:36 PM by Redx

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