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Dragon Ball Vs Discussion Thread: Power, Strengths, Abilities etc.

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[Reply] #61
06-16-2012 02:25 AM
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rage wrote:

return wrote: Alright, look. We have DBO Goku and Vegeta, which BTW is canon to both the manga and anime, and they caused a supernova during their final battle. So, I personally put them at high-transcendent.



is DBO actually out yet?



Yes, in Korea and Japan. It’s probably not coming out here, though.


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[Reply] #62
06-16-2012 02:27 AM
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return wrote:

rage wrote:

return wrote: Alright, look. We have DBO Goku and Vegeta, which BTW is canon to both the manga and anime, and they caused a supernova during their final battle. So, I personally put them at high-transcendent.



is DBO actually out yet?



Yes, in Korea and Japan. It’s probably not coming out here, though.



ah, that’s a shame. well is there a 100% reliable translation of this final battle i could see/read


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[Reply] #63
06-16-2012 02:27 AM
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return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote: I’m gonna start with Frieza.

First of all, what Non-Herald Marvel character’s are capable of moon, continent, mountain busting, or life wiping a planet?

Let’s start there, and then I’ll continue.



Black Bolt can. I think he can destroy solar systems with a full scream.

Then that makes him Herald level, maybe quit a bit higher if he can solar bust.

Point is, being capable of moon, mountain, continent busting, or life wiping makes you Herald level.

Now, going by simple powerscaling, Frieza was capable of soloing an entire planets population full of said Heralds with a finger, in base form.

What Marvel character would be capable of doing something like that? Thanos sure couldn’t, he’d be lucky to make it past 3 Heralds at once, let alone an entire planet full of them, while holding back as well.



Thanos was able to smack around the strongest herald, Surfer, like nothing, and tanked his hits with no damage whatsoever. He would be able to take an entire population with ease. Now, a low-herald can planet bust, A.K.A Terrax, and some low-heralds, like Nova, can cause a star to go supernova, granted those are special abilities. Surfer is able to absorb the energy of a star in his earlier issues, and in later ones can cause blackholes with his blasts.

Surfer is the strongest Herald, yet got stalemated by Iron Man. That tells me something about what Comic writers think about the tiers in their series. Surfer’s far more powerful than Iron Man, and yet not to the point of being able to no sell his attacks(holding back or not). Therefore, we can conclude that the same holds true for Thanos, or any other Marvel character who isn’t Omnipotent or something.

Hense the reason Odin wasn’t able to put down Thanos with a single shot, because the gap between their power means very little. So if Thanos tried to take on an entire planet full of Heralds, he’d get wasted, fast. In DBZ however, the difference between power means everything, because under no circumstances would Krillin EVER be able to take on Frieza, ever. Even if Frieza held back, Krillin would not be able to harm him, not without Kienzan.

And the gap between Silver(Black Hole creator and FTL flying speed) and Iron Man(probably not even able to bust a large section of the moon) should be like the gap between Krillin and Final Form Frieza.

So yeah, Frieza himself is far more powerful than both Silver and Thanos, for being able to take on an entire planet full of Herlads, while holding back. That’s like....the best thing Frieza’s ever done.



Oh come on, that’s a low-showing, his consistent portrayal is him fighting against other heralds, his highest showing was him channeling the energies of the big crunch, and took down 2 Galactus level beings. basically, by your logic, surfer should be Galactus level. Now, as for Krillin vs Frieza, it all depends on how low Frieza puts his levels. Thanos was actually getting raped throughout the whole fight, it’s kind of like Goku SSJ3 vs Kid Buu, also Thanos was defeated, not killed, just because of his massive durability. In Marvel, you can have the advantage over a certain character if you have a unique ability, such as durability, unlike DBZ.

Yeah, Surfer can take on more powerful beings under the right circumstances, but for the most part, he’s capable of getting hurt by beings far weaker than him. Just like Odin, who’s nose Surfer made bleed IIRC. And going by lolfeats, Surfer should have around galaxy level firepower just to scratch Odin’s skin, which is just laughable. And Thanos should have displayed galaxy level durability to be tanking any of Odin’s attacks. But that’s not how it works in Marvel comics, those extra effects shown in space are just to illustrated power, rather than how much stronger a person is compared to another one.

Thanos can’t nuke galaxies as a side effect, yet he can take on Odin. So if Thanos(who’s weaker than First Form Frieza)can take on Odin, then an SSJ2-SSJ3 should waste him. And If lol Iron Man can send Surfer flying, then an SSJ1-Ascended SSJ should be wasting him.


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[Reply] #64
06-16-2012 02:28 AM
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return wrote:

rage wrote:

return wrote: Alright, look. We have DBO Goku and Vegeta, which BTW is canon to both the manga and anime, and they caused a supernova during their final battle. So, I personally put them at high-transcendent.



is DBO actually out yet?



Yes, in Korea and Japan. It’s probably not coming out here, though.

Oh well, but you’re right the game is legit as far as being a continuation of DBZ making it canon stated by AT himself. That would make a true EOS Gogeta or Vegito supernova level.

Edited 06-16-2012 02:29 AM by Atheist
[Reply] #65
06-16-2012 02:29 AM
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Carter lokes wrote:

return wrote:

Carter lokes wrote:

return wrote:

Carter lokes wrote:

return wrote:

Carter lokes wrote: GT
Anime: Baby saga Base Goku with a portion of his power; Destroyed a Dimension.



He broke out of a dimension, and that’s an unquantifiable feat.


He’s still stronger than DBZ characters which are multiversal. And, he shattered that dimension which higher beings were controlling.



No one in DBZ is multiversal, where did you get that? Remember, Super buuhann was destroying the dimensional walls holding up the universe, and that was through special means, and is unquantifiable. No, the higher beings where pissed at Suguro, and where destroying the dimension, so Goku had to get out.


Look at the last page. Movie characters are multiversal. Janemba warped dimensions, Goku was shaking dimensions by transforming to SSJ 3. They weren’t pissed at Sugoro because he was cheating yes I know, Yes, they were going to destroy it(it could of been in a couple of minute or many minutes.) reason why goku said fuck it, and shattered it.



Janemba only warped King Emmas palace, which caused the bridge between life and death to be opened, and he did some warping to Hell. Goku SSJ3 only shaked the planet, and his Ki could be felt from otherworld, even if he did, like I said, unquantifiable, dimensions are merely another space that is perceived differently, and don’t mean crap unless it is the 4th dimension, 5th, and so on.


1.) Janemba warped the Other World and the dimension were the tournament was being held ( goku also stated that janemba could destroy the universe and also said janemba warped every dimension in creation.)
2.) Goku wasn’t even in the planet he was IN HELL and he was shaking all of the other world plus the dimension were the tournament was being held.
3.) DBZ doesn’t have 4 th dimension and 5th dimension. But based on the a map(which I’m not saying is correct but gives a general idea) there are 3 main dimension (not saying there’s only 3) and all of them are the same size. DBZ universe where earth is located is infinite. So it’s likely that the other dimensions are also the same size, therefore it is quantifiable.



I do have the DVD, so I guess I should check it out. What? That didn’t happen in the movie, all they show was his transformation, nothing about shaking other world or dimensions. BTW I thought you were talking about the 1st time he transformed, my bad. Also, don’t remember anything about him saying he warped every dimension in creation. So, I’ll be checking the movie now.


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[Reply] #66
06-16-2012 02:30 AM
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return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

The Millennium King wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

The Millennium King wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

The Millennium King wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote: I’m gonna start with Frieza.

First of all, what Non-Herald Marvel character’s are capable of moon, continent, mountain busting, or life wiping a planet?

Let’s start there, and then I’ll continue.



Black Bolt can. I think he can destroy solar systems with a full scream.

Then that makes him Herald level, maybe quit a bit higher if he can solar bust.

Point is, being capable of moon, mountain, continent busting, or life wiping makes you Herald level.

Now, going by simple powerscaling, Frieza was capable of soloing an entire planets population full of said Heralds with a finger, in base form.

What Marvel character would be capable of doing something like that? Thanos sure couldn’t, he’d be lucky to make it past 3 Heralds at once, let alone an entire planet full of them, while holding back as well.



So to recap, your trying to say that the average generic alien in DBZ is Herald Level?

Yes, because what non herald level being in Marvel is capable of busting either a moon, mountain, continent, or life wipe? That’s Herald level power.



Would you be able to show me a standard Saiyan soldier destroying a continent please?

The Saiyans are a warrior race that Frieza uses to capture planets across the Universe. You have low-elite saiyans. Raditz was trash, and yet capable of mountain/moon busting. Nappa was also like a mid tier, yet was capable of busting a continent. And then there’s Vegeta, who himself was going to life wipe Earth. Even if we limited it to Raditz/Nappa level beings, that’s still a planet full of Moon/Continent busters.

Do you know how much of a threat that would be to Marvel Earth? If someone who can casually nuke a moon or continent showed up? They’d be considered Herald level.



I would actually go with Raditz gaining power with his time with Vegeta/Nappa.

Think about it, he’s one of the last surviving Saiyans. He’s going to become stronger through his survival. At least that’s the way I see it.

Again, Saiyans are all soldiers to Frieza, used to take over planets across the Universe. Also, when Vegeta was thinking about Kid Bud destroying hundreds of planets in a few years, he thought about how Saiyans are capable of doing the same thing.

So that backs up the whole “planet full of Heralds” argument for me even more.



Which Supreme Kai then said lol no, and proceeded to tell him how he and the other kais could have one-shotted Frieza.

No, Supreme Kai was correcting Vegeta’s underestimation of Kid Buu. Not questioning how powerful Saiyans are as a race.


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[Reply] #67
06-16-2012 02:31 AM
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rage wrote:

return wrote:

rage wrote:

return wrote: Alright, look. We have DBO Goku and Vegeta, which BTW is canon to both the manga and anime, and they caused a supernova during their final battle. So, I personally put them at high-transcendent.



is DBO actually out yet?



Yes, in Korea and Japan. It’s probably not coming out here, though.



ah, that’s a shame. well is there a 100% reliable translation of this final battle i could see/read



Go to age 801.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19499

And one at a time people. If anyone wants to help out...


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[Reply] #68
06-16-2012 02:31 AM
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return wrote:

rage wrote:

return wrote:

rage wrote:

return wrote: Alright, look. We have DBO Goku and Vegeta, which BTW is canon to both the manga and anime, and they caused a supernova during their final battle. So, I personally put them at high-transcendent.



is DBO actually out yet?



Yes, in Korea and Japan. It’s probably not coming out here, though.



ah, that’s a shame. well is there a 100% reliable translation of this final battle i could see/read



Go to age 801.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19499

And one at a time people. If anyone wants to help out...



thank you
wait, so it doesn’t specifically say they caused it?


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Edited 06-16-2012 02:33 AM by Ragex
[Reply] #69
06-16-2012 02:35 AM
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GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote: I’m gonna start with Frieza.

First of all, what Non-Herald Marvel character’s are capable of moon, continent, mountain busting, or life wiping a planet?

Let’s start there, and then I’ll continue.



Black Bolt can. I think he can destroy solar systems with a full scream.

Then that makes him Herald level, maybe quit a bit higher if he can solar bust.

Point is, being capable of moon, mountain, continent busting, or life wiping makes you Herald level.

Now, going by simple powerscaling, Frieza was capable of soloing an entire planets population full of said Heralds with a finger, in base form.

What Marvel character would be capable of doing something like that? Thanos sure couldn’t, he’d be lucky to make it past 3 Heralds at once, let alone an entire planet full of them, while holding back as well.



Thanos was able to smack around the strongest herald, Surfer, like nothing, and tanked his hits with no damage whatsoever. He would be able to take an entire population with ease. Now, a low-herald can planet bust, A.K.A Terrax, and some low-heralds, like Nova, can cause a star to go supernova, granted those are special abilities. Surfer is able to absorb the energy of a star in his earlier issues, and in later ones can cause blackholes with his blasts.

Surfer is the strongest Herald, yet got stalemated by Iron Man. That tells me something about what Comic writers think about the tiers in their series. Surfer’s far more powerful than Iron Man, and yet not to the point of being able to no sell his attacks(holding back or not). Therefore, we can conclude that the same holds true for Thanos, or any other Marvel character who isn’t Omnipotent or something.

Hense the reason Odin wasn’t able to put down Thanos with a single shot, because the gap between their power means very little. So if Thanos tried to take on an entire planet full of Heralds, he’d get wasted, fast. In DBZ however, the difference between power means everything, because under no circumstances would Krillin EVER be able to take on Frieza, ever. Even if Frieza held back, Krillin would not be able to harm him, not without Kienzan.

And the gap between Silver(Black Hole creator and FTL flying speed) and Iron Man(probably not even able to bust a large section of the moon) should be like the gap between Krillin and Final Form Frieza.

So yeah, Frieza himself is far more powerful than both Silver and Thanos, for being able to take on an entire planet full of Herlads, while holding back. That’s like....the best thing Frieza’s ever done.



Oh come on, that’s a low-showing, his consistent portrayal is him fighting against other heralds, his highest showing was him channeling the energies of the big crunch, and took down 2 Galactus level beings. basically, by your logic, surfer should be Galactus level. Now, as for Krillin vs Frieza, it all depends on how low Frieza puts his levels. Thanos was actually getting raped throughout the whole fight, it’s kind of like Goku SSJ3 vs Kid Buu, also Thanos was defeated, not killed, just because of his massive durability. In Marvel, you can have the advantage over a certain character if you have a unique ability, such as durability, unlike DBZ.

Yeah, Surfer can take on more powerful beings under the right circumstances, but for the most part, he’s capable of getting hurt by beings far weaker than him. Just like Odin, who’s nose Surfer made bleed IIRC. And going by lolfeats, Surfer should have around galaxy level firepower just to scratch Odin’s skin, which is just laughable. And Thanos should have displayed galaxy level durability to be tanking any of Odin’s attacks. But that’s not how it works in Marvel comics, those extra effects shown in space are just to illustrated power, rather than how much stronger a person is compared to another one.

Thanos can’t nuke galaxies as a side effect, yet he can take on Odin. So if Thanos(who’s weaker than First Form Frieza)can take on Odin, then an SSJ2-SSJ3 should waste him. And If lol Iron Man can send Surfer flying, then an SSJ1-Ascended SSJ should be wasting him.



There really hasn’t been a recent moment where he has been hurt by anyone weaker than him, however. That’s because of Thanos durability, and he still got smacked around by Odin. In DBZ, Ki increases everything, Marvel however does not operate like that. Odin never got a nose-bleed by Surfer, Surfer never made anyones nose bleed. Thanos takes on a high-herald like nothing, planet Vegeta is filled with mostly people in between high metahuman and low heralds. Low heralds can bust planets, to destroy a planet like Earth you need a power level of 11,291, not even Nappa has that. So, Vegeta saiyan saga was most likely a low-herald.


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[Reply] #70
06-16-2012 02:39 AM
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rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e


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Edited 06-16-2012 03:02 AM by Tippership Commander
[Reply] #71
06-16-2012 02:43 AM
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Alright, been watching the movie. King Yemma is merely saying that because of Janemba, the laws of other world and this world would no longer be governed, and that the deceased will come back to life.

The jap sub is King Yama, just saying.


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Edited 06-16-2012 02:47 AM by The Merchant
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return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

return wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote: I’m gonna start with Frieza.

First of all, what Non-Herald Marvel character’s are capable of moon, continent, mountain busting, or life wiping a planet?

Let’s start there, and then I’ll continue.



Black Bolt can. I think he can destroy solar systems with a full scream.

Then that makes him Herald level, maybe quit a bit higher if he can solar bust.

Point is, being capable of moon, mountain, continent busting, or life wiping makes you Herald level.

Now, going by simple powerscaling, Frieza was capable of soloing an entire planets population full of said Heralds with a finger, in base form.

What Marvel character would be capable of doing something like that? Thanos sure couldn’t, he’d be lucky to make it past 3 Heralds at once, let alone an entire planet full of them, while holding back as well.



Thanos was able to smack around the strongest herald, Surfer, like nothing, and tanked his hits with no damage whatsoever. He would be able to take an entire population with ease. Now, a low-herald can planet bust, A.K.A Terrax, and some low-heralds, like Nova, can cause a star to go supernova, granted those are special abilities. Surfer is able to absorb the energy of a star in his earlier issues, and in later ones can cause blackholes with his blasts.

Surfer is the strongest Herald, yet got stalemated by Iron Man. That tells me something about what Comic writers think about the tiers in their series. Surfer’s far more powerful than Iron Man, and yet not to the point of being able to no sell his attacks(holding back or not). Therefore, we can conclude that the same holds true for Thanos, or any other Marvel character who isn’t Omnipotent or something.

Hense the reason Odin wasn’t able to put down Thanos with a single shot, because the gap between their power means very little. So if Thanos tried to take on an entire planet full of Heralds, he’d get wasted, fast. In DBZ however, the difference between power means everything, because under no circumstances would Krillin EVER be able to take on Frieza, ever. Even if Frieza held back, Krillin would not be able to harm him, not without Kienzan.

And the gap between Silver(Black Hole creator and FTL flying speed) and Iron Man(probably not even able to bust a large section of the moon) should be like the gap between Krillin and Final Form Frieza.

So yeah, Frieza himself is far more powerful than both Silver and Thanos, for being able to take on an entire planet full of Herlads, while holding back. That’s like....the best thing Frieza’s ever done.



Oh come on, that’s a low-showing, his consistent portrayal is him fighting against other heralds, his highest showing was him channeling the energies of the big crunch, and took down 2 Galactus level beings. basically, by your logic, surfer should be Galactus level. Now, as for Krillin vs Frieza, it all depends on how low Frieza puts his levels. Thanos was actually getting raped throughout the whole fight, it’s kind of like Goku SSJ3 vs Kid Buu, also Thanos was defeated, not killed, just because of his massive durability. In Marvel, you can have the advantage over a certain character if you have a unique ability, such as durability, unlike DBZ.

Yeah, Surfer can take on more powerful beings under the right circumstances, but for the most part, he’s capable of getting hurt by beings far weaker than him. Just like Odin, who’s nose Surfer made bleed IIRC. And going by lolfeats, Surfer should have around galaxy level firepower just to scratch Odin’s skin, which is just laughable. And Thanos should have displayed galaxy level durability to be tanking any of Odin’s attacks. But that’s not how it works in Marvel comics, those extra effects shown in space are just to illustrated power, rather than how much stronger a person is compared to another one.

Thanos can’t nuke galaxies as a side effect, yet he can take on Odin. So if Thanos(who’s weaker than First Form Frieza)can take on Odin, then an SSJ2-SSJ3 should waste him. And If lol Iron Man can send Surfer flying, then an SSJ1-Ascended SSJ should be wasting him.



There really hasn’t been a recent moment where he has been hurt by anyone weaker than him, however. That’s because of Thanos durability, and he still got smacked around by Odin. In DBZ, Ki increases everything, Marvel however does not operate like that. Odin never got a nose-bleed by Surfer, Surfer never made anyones nose bleed. Thanos takes on a high-herald like nothing, planet Vegeta is filled with mostly people in between high metahuman and low heralds. Low heralds can bust planets, to destroy a planet like Earth you need a power level of 11,291, not even Nappa has that. So, Vegeta saiyan saga was most likely a low-herald.

I’ll go back and look then, I could be wrong about the nosebleed. Still, Surfer doesn’t get massive power boosts like DBZ character’s do. His power set stays more or less the same, like many other Marvel character’s. And no version of Surfer(who can create black holes and fly massively FTL)should be getting sent flying by Iron Man. Not if we go strictly by feats. Focusing only on feats is what gets you into trouble when faced with showings like this.

And Thanos durability shouldn’t be anywhere near galaxy level just going off of feats. I know Thanos can tank Odin’s blasts, but that’s more because Odin isn’t as powerful as he’s made out to be in the first place. Like I said before, how much a person nukes in space in Marvel matters very little when facing someone else. The same is true for Thor vs Wolverine. Thor is far more powerful than Wolverine, and yet was getting schooled by him, up until he flew in the air and used lighting.

And yeah, all DBZ character’s operate on ki, but so what? What’s that got to do with the power gaps? Why didn’t Surfer, Odin, or Thor no sell/one shot beings hilariously weaker than them, like Z character’s? It’s because the difference in power in Marvel tiers really isn’t that large. Meaning that DBZ character’s are more than capable of taking on these same Marvel character’s.


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Edited 06-16-2012 02:45 AM by DFO Zealot
[Reply] #73
06-16-2012 02:56 AM
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Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread [url]
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/[/url]

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction


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[Reply] #74
06-16-2012 03:03 AM
Joined: 05-26-2009
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rage wrote:

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread [url]
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/[/url]

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction

Are you siding with me? Because that’s my whole argument for DBZ character’s who are faced against beings like Odin.

Sure, Odin can nuke galaxies as a side effect when fighting in deep space. But that’s not a testament to how much stronger who is than another person, because Thanos was able to take on Odin and not die instantly. Thanos, who’s only multi-planet in power himself. And he hasn’t tanked any kind of galaxy-multi galaxy attack, and yet didn’t die against Odin.

Same with Surfer vs Iron Man. Surfer, who can create black holes and fly FTL, got sent flying by Iron Man and stalemated.

Clearly all those feats mean very little to comic writers when matching character’s against each other. Unlike DBZ, where the difference between the strong and weak is very apparent.

So why the hell can’t DBZ character’s take on SkyFather’s like Odin?


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[Reply] #75
06-16-2012 03:03 AM
Joined: 11-02-2006
Posts: 9,976
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Tippership Commander
Tippership Commander
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Rep: 231

rage wrote:

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction

About the creation thing- isn’t creation supposed to imply something that can be repeated, and hint at the open-endedness of whatever’s said power????


__________________

[Reply] #76
06-16-2012 03:09 AM
Joined: 01-28-2012
Posts: 18,524
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Ragex
Ragex
It was you all along
Rep: 206

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote:

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction

About the creation thing- isn’t creation supposed to imply something that can be repeated, and hint at the open-endedness of whatever’s said power????



well yeah, you’d think if someone was able to create a planet or something once, then they would be able to repeat that particular feat
unless they lost power somehow


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[Reply] #77
06-16-2012 03:19 AM
Joined: 01-28-2012
Posts: 18,524
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Ragex
Ragex
It was you all along
Rep: 206

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

rage wrote:

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread [url]
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/[/url]

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction

Are you siding with me? Because that’s my whole argument for DBZ character’s who are faced against beings like Odin.

Sure, Odin can nuke galaxies as a side effect when fighting in deep space. But that’s not a testament to how much stronger who is than another person, because Thanos was able to take on Odin and not die instantly. Thanos, who’s only multi-planet in power himself. And he hasn’t tanked any kind of galaxy-multi galaxy attack, and yet didn’t die against Odin.

Same with Surfer vs Iron Man. Surfer, who can create black holes and fly FTL, got sent flying by Iron Man and stalemated.

Clearly all those feats mean very little to comic writers when matching character’s against each other. Unlike DBZ, where the difference between the strong and weak is very apparent.

So why the hell can’t DBZ character’s take on SkyFather’s like Odin?



for the most part i am siding with you it would appear


but i want to bring something up. in a blood lusted fight where odin will do anything to win, do you believe that odin would perform these space feats, like nuking galaxies as a side effect, or would he restrain from doing so just to avoid destroying something important to him(i.e asgard)?


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[Reply] #78
06-16-2012 03:24 AM
Joined: 05-29-2012
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Yes, but in DBO the supernova was caused from their final battle, so technically that should be a combat feat. And he only got stalemated by Iron Man only once, most of the time he is fighting characters on his level. BTW sorry it took me so long, the site was being craptastically slow, and I was watching fusion reborn, and nowhere does Goku say about dimensions being warped, the only thing we got was king yama sayaing that since he has his powers cut off from the barrier, the laws of other world and this world would not be governed.


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[Reply] #79
06-16-2012 03:42 AM
Joined: 05-26-2009
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rage wrote:

GodHandZaWarudo wrote:

rage wrote:

Tippership Commander wrote:

rage wrote: since this should (hopefully) be the thread where the power of dbz will finally be decided, I think this deserves to be stickied

It has been done.

/
Something else I wanted to open up here to be discussed by those who’ve had this issue bfore- that carries over from this ongoing thread [url]
http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/[/url]

#1. in the ongoing discussion in that ^, one of the biggest issues is that GOD created the world in X days, and that DragonBallZ characters can destroy planets via utilizing their Ki and launching it at the core of planets. One big thing that is argued is that therefore DragonbalLZ goes far due to destructive nature, especially against those that have Creative feats. How much should the methods, and source of power, matter?



#2. A second thing I want to point out- DragonBallZ’s way of using their power- relies on effects that are quite frankly, a bit strange in fiction.

In Tenchi, when Washu and Lady Tokimi clash, the galaxy gets a big hole made in it. That’s supposed to be interpreted as from their power as Deities. but being “Deities” helps indicate what they can do- or is supposed to. Otherwise, you wouldn’t understand why they are importnat in the story.

in Star Wars, the Death Star generates a ridiculous amount of power , to use it’s Superlaser on a level, that it can destroy planets.
This is a bit closer to real life- where destroying planets is REALLY hard to do. Supernovas? Through the planet becoming what it was when it formed, interstellar material. Stars expanding? In 5 Billion years when the Sun expands, if the Earth’s ORBIT does not get bigger and go to where Saturn’s orbit is now(due to decreasing Sun Mass), it’d be “swallowed” , but it’d still be a hard mass. Point is, planets are actually really really hard to destroy no matter what due to factors like gravity. (actually that’s the biggest thing- as the mass won’t just stay apart, so gravity has to be overcome)

now take Dragonball Z- they launch Ki, “energy from within”, at a Core- and as the Frieza Saga sowed, it destabilizes the core, which may explode, or in select cases(World of the Kais), it may not explode, and will be geographically altered.

The process by which this happens is not explained in DragonBallZ, and does NOT lend an idea on how to extrapolate what else Ki really is GEARED to do. And yet, people build up this incredible amount of power in their bodies.


Comics perhaps do this as well,but it’s not so...requiring of fillign in blanks. Best examples, using the planet exploding thing- would be Superman, or BetaRay Bill, or Superman Prime, etc.
When Superman physically at full power slams through a moon like the Shadow moon or Saturn’s moons, he cleaves through it and breaks it apart with enough force (built up) from his strength, speed, to shatter it. That’s how “planet destroying” in comics generally goes, unless it’s someone Abstract or above , who would then use a technique with factors on a high enough level to get the job done.

My point from this is , should characters really be judged by what they destroy ?

Superman at his utmost best/amped /precrisis/ with whatever factors, can move planets and moons ,or plunge through them(Superman(Superboy) Prime did the best example of this), but it’s not REALLY indicative of the threat he is to other characters.

In anime, it’s ..differently approached. How you do something, isn’t covered as well. What is focused on is what happened to the target, or simply that X is superior to Y now that he’s gotten a technique/has trained/etc. Or animes waver. I’d mention Yu Yu, but I need to rewatch it.

Perhaps now I understand why that Gogeta/Goku vs God fight has gone on for so long- because what they can do/have done, is viewed as an automatic placing of status.

There’s a million ways to have a character ...interact with the enviroment. How many of those should count, from portrayal,inplied power,inner power,writer power etc ---- how much of each of those, goes far, is the question for us.

Something I find interesting- I skim herochat and KMC from time to time, and sometimes they cover both how a forum fight would go, and how a comic book fight would go.e



for creation feats neither the method, nor the source of power should matter imo

and going strictly off of destruction feats seems rather pointless to be honest, because not all writers show power through raw destruction

Are you siding with me? Because that’s my whole argument for DBZ character’s who are faced against beings like Odin.

Sure, Odin can nuke galaxies as a side effect when fighting in deep space. But that’s not a testament to how much stronger who is than another person, because Thanos was able to take on Odin and not die instantly. Thanos, who’s only multi-planet in power himself. And he hasn’t tanked any kind of galaxy-multi galaxy attack, and yet didn’t die against Odin.

Same with Surfer vs Iron Man. Surfer, who can create black holes and fly FTL, got sent flying by Iron Man and stalemated.

Clearly all those feats mean very little to comic writers when matching character’s against each other. Unlike DBZ, where the difference between the strong and weak is very apparent.

So why the hell can’t DBZ character’s take on SkyFather’s like Odin?



for the most part i am siding with you it would appear


but i want to bring something up. in a blood lusted fight where odin will do anything to win, do you believe that odin would perform these space feats, like nuking galaxies as a side effect, or would he restrain from doing so just to avoid destroying something important to him(i.e asgard)?

Odin was bloodlusted against Thanos, and didn’t nuke galaxies. Not all battles will have galaxies getting nuked in comics and all that. Odin will simply be trying to kill Goku with his attacks, but that’s about it. But really, Goku would be just fine all the same if Odin did start nuking galaxies around him, I think. It would just be Odin wrecking the surrounding area while trying to kill Goku.

The only issue would be if Odin nuked the planet, because Goku isn’t written to be able to survive in space.


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[Reply] #80
06-16-2012 03:45 AM
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return wrote: Yes, but in DBO the supernova was caused from their final battle, so technically that should be a combat feat. And he only got stalemated by Iron Man only once, most of the time he is fighting characters on his level. BTW sorry it took me so long, the site was being craptastically slow, and I was watching fusion reborn, and nowhere does Goku say about dimensions being warped, the only thing we got was king yama sayaing that since he has his powers cut off from the barrier, the laws of other world and this world would not be governed.

Yeah, he can take on stronger beings, but he can also still get hurt by attacks weaker than what an SSJ1 could dish out.

And like I said before, I think Frieza is more powerful than Surfer and Thanos. I highly doubt that Surfer is taking on a planet full of even low-heralds, same with Thanos. Especially while holding back in a base form or something.

That’s what Frieza did, and I don’t think people understand how significant that is.


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