You guys Suck. You all keep clamoring for a discussion on this(a lot of you), and then don’t do much. Lol, or you have a Mod or Admin unlock a topic, then sit and do nothing xD(EDIT: Rage actually did something, kudos)

Fine, I"LL DO IT. Cheap skates.

This thread is for serious discussion of DragonballZ and where it stands.

For an idea of why this should be discussed, see these threads.

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/religion/gogeta-ssj4-vs-godbibleread-op-96934/

http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-forum/goku-and-vegeta-vs-thanos-odin-phoenix-galactus-anti-monitor-sonic-shadow-90910/

You guys all know the deal. DBZ is ..quite controversial in where it’s power stands as a whole universe. This gets discussed often in topics such as this, and goes on for a while- and especially when talking destructive capability, and if powerscaling should be used, or not.

it spans from discussing whenther Goku is a planet buster, or a “megaverse” buster. It spans if they are Skyfather level, or if they are the fastest beings in fiction.

**Or how they stack up against DC Comics, Or MARVEL Comics, or ARCHIE, or IMAGE, or SEGA, or Nintendo, or Sony, or X anime, etc. or even the BIBLE/GOD ALMIGHTY.** How they perform against really high tiers in fiction. Or lower tiers/ whenther how far you go in fiction is determined by what you can blow up , or if tere’s more than solely that.

Keep in mind this is one of the most heated topics on this site- and, the subject of DragonBallZ is the most ...heated topic on this site , so I ask that you give serious responses to others. I’m sure a lot of opinions many people have will seem...crazy to others, but that does not matter.

Tornado The Dragon - a.k.a Big Brother wrote:

Requested by: Gangster Broly

Calculated by:~Tornado The Dragon - a.k.a Big Brother~

Link to calc: http://lounge.moviecodec.com/vs-general/dragonballz-discussion-about-how-powerful-they-are-reasons-etc-152605/281#msg5609462

Post #: 5,614

And this is for you too, Raniero, curstdragon, Wolfenstien, Zacktabaar, Based Sheko, Leper Messiah, Expensive Discount, ROBOT, Legendary Phoenix, and others (forgive me if I forgot to mention your name).

Your welcome.

*Note: [n] Will be used for citation purposes. Were n is an integer number indicating were the citation should be in the credits section. It is not multiplying anything just b/c its arbitrary value x units[n] does not mean the value is being multiplied by n just an indication of the citation order.*

Genuinely surprised by the values I was expecting them to be around only 10 or less in comparison to Earth. Guess you can’t really say until you really analyse it huh?

*NO PIXEL SCALING WAS USED IN THIS CALCULATION* As it is not needed at all in any shape, way or form.

*Note to self: I just hope I haven’t forgotten anything out. Since it is bugging me hopefully I will remember it in time. Or someone will point it out.*

*Yes I remembered attack potency & aoe/dc stuff.*

Also to everyone else if you see anything wrong with this calculation or have any problems with it what so far feel free to PM me. Thank you * adios! Peace out.

Now before we start off it is important to remember these are the scans being used and the feat in question is how powerful Freeza’s casual blast was, how much rock was displaced in the process and the speed and strength of the feat.

The feat is on the third scan. Mind you the first two were necessary to give me a better idea of the proportions and speed of the feat.

Scans (courtesy of Mangafox):

Now the stage is set for the reasonable assumptions, and methods we can use to solve this feat.

The method that will be used to determine the mass of the rock displaced will be “Schiehallion experiment”[1] primarily.

More info on it can be found under credits. Along with the values for Earth’s mean density which is: 5515 kg/m^3[2].

Also 100% Freeza is assumed to be capable of going atcread that part of the calc for further information as to why.*In spoiler number 3.*

Also relativistic equations were used and all of the information used can be found on under credits.

Lastly the values I determined for the plateau/land mass was comparing similar images in RL and their dimensions like the Tibet plateau which is in thousands of meters, or take small rocky formations which are only a few meters. Any one can google or wiki these things easily enough.*In spoiler number 5.*

Now to determine the energy of the blast fired by Freeza we will assume that he is at 5% of his power and scale from Saiyan Saga Vegeta’s Galick Gun. Taking the minimum value possible to destroy Earth we will need to use the equation:

[7]

The m is the mass and c is the speed of light.

So the m here is the mass of the Earth which is: 5.97219×10^24 kg[3] or simply 6.0x10^24 kg.

The c=299,792,458 meters per second[4] or 3 x 10^8 m/s

So to find out the power of the Galick Gun we plug in the values to find out the energy required to destroy the Earth.

Ev= (6.0x10^24 kg)(3 x 10^8 m/s)^2= 5.4 x 10^41 J

*J is Joules for energy 1 Joule= 1 kg(m^2/s^2)*

So now that we know the power of Vegeta’s Galick Gun we will assume he only increased 50% in power and that Reecome is twice as strong then him at that point and that Ginyu is 50% stronger then Reecome. And Freeza is also twice as strong as Ginyu and each transformation of Freeza only makes him 2x as powerful. (If any one thinks these values are too high or too low let me know)

So the multiplier effect in total is: 1(SS Vegeta=Ev)*1.5(BoN=Beginning of Namek, Vegeta)*2(Reecome)*1.5(Ginyu)*2(Base Freeza)*2(1st Transformation Freeza)*2(2nd Transformation Freeza)*2(Final form Freeza @ 5%)= 72Ev=72(5.4 x 10^41 J)= 3.888x10^43 J rounded to 3.9x10^43 J or about 4.0 x 10^43 J=Ef.

So now we know the energy behind Freeza’s blast on scan 1. For the speed is a tricky issue since low-relativistic Raditz is a controversial topic.

I will assume that 100% Freeza= c (LS) (Some of you will feel like this is wank or downplay. I have heard of values between MHS+ to FTL so I will take between the two for now).

And since Freeza is at 5%. His blast’s projectile speed should at least be 1/5 LS or the same as his combat speed in this case.

So let “S.feb” be known as “Speed of Freeza’s energy blast”.

Then S.feb=c/5= 299,792,458 m/s/5= 59,958,491.6 m/s or about 6.0x10^7 m/s (from Freeza’s perspective towards Goku; or vice-versa since in this case the distance between them is negligible for all intents and purposes here).

Also I did not use relativity here since I am just determining the Ki blasts' speed not in relation to anything but itself (using simple RL, db and vs logic).

Now we find the relativistic kinetic energy behind it which will be used for calculations further on.

The equation is:

[7]

Since we have already determined E=mc^2. We only need to determine the -m.c^2 part (m. is the mass of Goku here).

Now finding Goku’s mass will be tricky and since various values have been put forth from 62 kg to above 100 kg. Yet the average mass of the person is 70 kg[5]. For Goku I will be treating him as an entry level heavy weight individual which is equal to or above 220 pounds[6]=99.7903 kg about 100kg.

So the E in this case will be;

Eg=(100)(3x10^8 m/s)^2)= 9 x 10^18 J

So the relativistic kinetic energy (rke) is:

E= 4.0x10^43 J - 9x10^18 J= 3.9 x 10^43 J (Rounded down form before, although the difference here is negligible once again).

So now we we know the energy of the blast; the “power” behind it. Which is 3.9 x 10^43 J.

For this we will have to use the relativistic equations for time which is:

[7]

Now before we find Goku’s reaction time we need to find out how quickly the ki blast reached Goku. From the edge of the shore (where Freeza was) to Goku (on the shore). My estimation ranges from 15 to 100 meters. But in this case I will be using 50 meters between Freeza and Goku. And after contact that Goku traveled another 100 meters before hitting the cliff. But for reaction time we only need to find out how fast it took for the ki blast to travel 50 meters.

So the equation is for this is(uploaded by myself after adjusting a much larger version of this from google images):

[7]

Where Lp or L0 is 50 meters. And we are looking for L.

So for something moving at 0.2c (1/5LS). L=0.9797958971132712l0 L0=0.9797958971132712(50m)= 48.98979485566356 m or about 49 meters.

In order to find the reaction time we will need to merge these 2 equations (time dilation & length contraction).

But we know that in one’s own frame of reference L=vt and L0=v0t0.

But since we don’t know either T or T0 we will have to combine the 2 equations to get:

[8]

Were y is gamma or y=(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2

Here we know v=6.0x10^7 m/s and c=3x10^8 m/s

So L=vt0/y. Here now that the equation is simplified we can isolate t0 to find Goku’s reaction time.

L=49 m, v=6.0x10^7m/s & y= (1-0.04)^1/2=0.979795897 or about 0.98

So, t0=(Ly)/v= (49 m*0.98)/(6x10^7m/s)= (48.02/6 x10^7)s= 8.00333...x10^-7 s or about 8x10^-7 s which is about 800 nano seconds [9]. Which is not surprising for relativistic moving characters. Although it is blisteringly fast. I guess this also helps answer one of Legendary Phoenix’s question about reaction speed.

Now calculating Goku’s strength we could go by relativistic mass and use more complex equations. But to simplify it for ourselves we will take this in Goku’s frame of reference. Hence we can calculate it as a strength feat much more easily. Simply by using E=mc^2. In this case the m is unknown and E=3.9 x 10^ 43 J

Then m= E/c^2= 3.9 x 10^ 43 J / 9 x 10^16 m^2/s^2= 4.333...x10^26 kg or about 4.3 x10^26 kg.

Which is about 430 yotta kg (1 yotta kg is 1 x 10^24 kg)[10].

So about 0.43 yotta tons. Mind you that the Earth is 6 x 10^24 kg or in this case Goku with a PL of 3 million (although PL have nothing to do with this ultimately) can lift 4.3x10^26/6x10^24= 71.67 (apx.) Earths. Almost 72 Earths.

chaos.org.uk wrote: Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter have masses 0.103, 0.567 and 1.90 yotta tonnes, respectively. A black hole with a mass of 0.1 yotta tonne would have a diameter of about a light nanosecond (a.k.a. foot) and a temperature of 1.2 mK.

So this also goes to show Goku could lift any planet in our solar system except Jupiter.

To calculate Goku’s durability we have to see with what force he hit the rock cliff with.

The equation for this is:

F=y^3(m0)*(v.(v))[11][12][13]

We know that from before y=(1-v^2/c^2)^1/2.

Were m0 is the rest mass. In this 71.67 Earths since at the point of contact Goku flung it into space (good thing too). Goku’s mass and the cliff’s mass are both negligible as they are not (and will not be) noticeable.

So m0=71.67*6x10^24kg= 4.3x10^26 kg

In this case v.=v since the distance between Goku and Freeza was only 50 m. Although realistically there is a slight difference it doesn’t matter here.

So we can write F as F=y^3(m0)*v^2

Hence, F=(0.98)^3*4.3x10^26 kg*3.6x10^15 m^2/s^2

F= 1.457 x 10^42 N (apx.)

Which is equivalent to many dozens of Earth like planets in a single blow. Let that sink in.

So now we have Goku’s reaction speed: 800 nano seconds, His strength: 71.67 Earths= 4.3 x10^26 kg, and his durability of 1.457 x10^42 N or many dozens of Earth like planets smashing in one hit.

Here I drew the lines corresponding with the dimensions of the land mass. It has nothing to do with pixel scaling and anyone can feel free to check. Here is the image I posted up:

So the width is 300 meters & the length is also 300 meters; and the height is 75 meters. I used other cliff images on google with similar perspective to gauge this. If someone has a more accurate value for this feel free to let me know in this thread or via PM. Thanks.

As said in spoiler number 2 I used low end values so the surface area (sa) of a rectangular prism land mass (ideal conditions) with the dimensions listed before will be;

sa= 2(WH + LW + LH)= 2(300*75 + 300*300 + 300*75)= 2(22,500 + 90,000 + 22,500)=2(135,000)= 270,000 m^2 = 270 km^2

Now you can compare this value with various islands and will find how low balled it really is. It’s even smaller thanRothschild Islandwhich is almost twice as large as this one; using the values I used for it. [14]

Considering its supposedly resembles plateau somewhat as well. I used no value of the sort.[15]

Here I will just calculate the amount of rock mass displaced in the process. Mind you this doesn’t really add anything to Goku’s stats except how much control he has dealing with blasts of energies worth up to 72 Earths. The thing is its an error which is in the 10 millionths; or being able 1,250,000= 1,25 million times accurate enough to not level the cliff while dealing with that much energy; low end numbers. Talk about accuracy.

So we will use theSchiehallion experimentas mentioned very early on.

The crack in the cliff’s dimensions: W=30m ( the crack is about 1/10 of the total width) L=240m (The total length of the cliff is 300 meters but as you can see on panel it it did not go all the way). H=75 m.

So assuming ideal conditions, the volume should be that of a rectangular prism.

Which is: V=lwh= 240*30*75= 540,000 m^3

Now going by mass we have m=dv

m= 5515 kg/m^3*540,000 m^3= 2978100000 kg= 2.9781 x 10 ^ 9 kg or about 3.0 x 10^ 9 kg or 3 billion kg which is 3 million tons.

So the amount of rock (mass) destroyed/displaced in the process is 3 million tons.

I would like to thank many of you but special notice goes to Raniero, Wolfenstein, Zacktabaar, curstdragon, Gangster Broly, ROBOT, expensive-discount, Leper Messiah, etc. your posts and help have been of vital importance. I apologize if I have forgotten to mention anybody.

Links:

[1]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiehallion_experiment

[2]&[3]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth

[4]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light

[5]: http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/AlexSchlessingerman.shtml

[6]: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Championship_(professional_wrestling)[/url]

[7]:http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/relcon.html#relcon

[8]:http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node79.html

[9]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time

[10]: http://www.chaos.org.uk/~eddy/physics/scale/mass.html

[11]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_relativistic_equations

[12]:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_mechanics

[13]:http://www.sciencebits.com/node/175

[14]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_islands_by_area#Islands_500.E2.80.931.2C000.C2.A0km2_.28190.E2.80.93390.C2.A0sq.C2.A0mi.29

[15]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Plateau

Note on conversion: For converting values, units, etc. I used google converter for example lbs to kg and vice-versa; or g/cm^3 to kg/m^3, etc.

1) Goku can extremely casually deal with multiple Earths worth of energy (72 to be exact). He should also be able to out put in dc/aoe (they are the same in this case) the same amount of energy and in kaioken x 20 about 1440 Earths (but only once going by low end values).

2) Has nanosecond reactions easily (800 nanoseconds), low-relativistic, 20% ofc.

3) Can lift about 71.67 Earths or any planet in our solar system except Jupiter.

4) Can with stand attacks with 1.457 x10^42 N or about taking a hit which contains dozens of Earth like planets behind it. And you can use the kaioken multipliers to get his for his durability, I don’t think we can apply the same scaling method after Goku turns SSJ though.

5) Goku has accuracy down to the 1-10 millionths in dealing with explosion which would destroy up to 72 Earths.

6) His reaction/combat speed is at least 6 x 10^ 7 m/s (probably more) so that is about mach 176,470.6. Or better put 20% LS/c.

7) Freeza can do all of this at 5%

Split Durability Thread

More on split durability.

Monkey King wrote:

Super Exciting Guide wrote:

Piccolo:

Height: 226 cm

Weight: 116 kg

Daizenshuu wrote: Piccolo enlarges his body to

over ten times its normal size.

Giant Piccolo - 10X his normal size

Super Giant Piccolo - >10X his normal size

According to the square cube law, Piccolo’s weight would grown in 3 dimensions.

So 116kg x10 x10 x10 = 116,000kg (116 tons)

The Monkey King wrote:

Toriyama Interview wrote: What was the Galactic Patrol doing when Raditz and then Vegeta were attacking Earth?

Akira: Even though they’re called the Galactic Patrol,they only stand a chance against Saiyans when they’re children, and the Extinction Bomb doesn’t work on them. Naturally, they have no choice but to turn a blind eye to people like Freeza.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/v-jump-december-2013-akira-toriyama/

Galactic Patrolmen >=< Average saiyan child.

So here are some Jaco feats:

Remember this guy would bearly be a match for a saiyanchildlol

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