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[Reply] #81
07-10-2011 11:04 PM
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Stygian
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Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Joshstarwind wrote: IT would seem that in dbz they gan go light speed in small bursts, or at least near it. Thats why radditz is said to move the speed of lighting.



Instant transmission is not quantifiable in terms of speed.



In Marvels eyes it is. Whenever they have power grids if someone can teleport they put there speed at the highest on the grid.



Of course people with it would be at the top of the list. But things like: instant transmission, warping, teleporting ect. are not quantifiable in terms of speed. They are beyond speed.



You just quantified it though.



How do you figure that?

[Reply] #82
07-10-2011 11:04 PM
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1. Standard rules. Try reading them. 2. The entire anime is non canon period. You want to reference something specifically in terms of exactly what happened? You use a scan. Period. 3. Final flash occurred in the manga. I don’t see what your getting at.


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[Reply] #83
07-10-2011 11:05 PM
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Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.

You didnt see goku go all around namek in an instant? maybe you saw but didnt read. He didnt have instant transmission at the time he learned it on yardrat the planet he escaped to after defeating frieza and leaving planet namek to explode.

Vegeta’s final flash didnt hit a planet it went far out into space until it wasnt seen really fast.

Piccolo hit the moon instantly with a generic ki blast, he did it faster than roshi.

Roshi blew up the moon just like piccolo did, only it took him a second or two.

Heres the final flash vid, I’m too sleepy to look for scans now youtube is faster.


@Paradox: look.


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[Reply] #84
07-10-2011 11:07 PM
Derp
Guest

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.


Goku doesn’t learn IT until after escaping Namek. Read my scan again. Goku was on the other side of a planet massively bigger than the Earth and flew to where Frieza and his friends were almost in an instant.



How do you know that they were on the other side of the planet? And what do you call Goku and Frieza INSTANTLY appearing behind each other during their fight? Sounds like IT to me.



Instant Transmission is a technique that ONLY Goku knows and that he explicitly learned after escaping from Namek prior to its explosion (aka way after the beginning of his Frieza fight). Know what you’re talking about before posting.

[Reply] #85
07-10-2011 11:07 PM
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Shoddragon wrote: 1. Standard rules. Try reading them. 2. The entire anime is non canon period. You want to reference something specifically in terms of exactly what happened? You use a scan. Period. 3. Final flash occurred in the manga. I don’t see what your getting at.



lol... only fillers are non canon, seeing as the anime is just the manga with color and motion. standard rules of what? iirc, if the OP specified which to use, pretty sure you use all the media. unless you can link those standard rules to me.
exactly... it happened in the manga, it happened in the anime so how is it non canon?

and your, um, non canon rule can be a double edged sword so be careful how you use it.


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Edited 07-10-2011 11:08 PM by juniorsworld
[Reply] #86
07-10-2011 11:07 PM
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@kin: teleportation itself is generally regarded as instant in terms of travel speed. But it’s not necessarily quantifiable because we don’t know how fast goku’s specifically makes him travel. Some work through dematerialization, wormholes, etc.


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[Reply] #87
07-10-2011 11:08 PM
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Paradox wrote:

Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Joshstarwind wrote: IT would seem that in dbz they gan go light speed in small bursts, or at least near it. Thats why radditz is said to move the speed of lighting.



Instant transmission is not quantifiable in terms of speed.



In Marvels eyes it is. Whenever they have power grids if someone can teleport they put there speed at the highest on the grid.



Of course people with it would be at the top of the list. But things like: instant transmission, warping, teleporting ect. are not quantifiable in terms of speed. They are beyond speed.



You just quantified it though.



How do you figure that?


Teleportation is beyond speed. It’s the act of getting from point A to point B basically instantly. It’s been pretty well quantified. Your method of doing it might be different and your powers range as well might be different but there is a general quantifiable consensus on what it is.


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[Reply] #88
07-10-2011 11:08 PM
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Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.


Goku doesn’t learn IT until after escaping Namek. Read my scan again. Goku was on the other side of a planet massively bigger than the Earth and flew to where Frieza and his friends were almost in an instant.



How do you know that they were on the other side of the planet? And what do you call Goku and Frieza INSTANTLY appearing behind each other during their fight? Sounds like IT to me.


Go back to my scan on pg 2 and click on the picture in yellow. Also I’m telling you right now Goku doesn’t learn IT until he leaves Namek.


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Edited 07-10-2011 11:49 PM by ShawtyHot
[Reply] #89
07-10-2011 11:10 PM
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Some scenes are changed, filler, or even not present. The anime is non canon. Links to standard rules? Are you kidding. You can’t click vs forum and go to the rules?


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[Reply] #90
07-10-2011 11:11 PM
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http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/teleportation2.htm


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleportation


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Edited 07-10-2011 11:12 PM by Kinasin
[Reply] #91
07-10-2011 11:15 PM
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DBZ 4 Life wrote:

Slayer wrote: Lighting speed =/= Light speed



You r stupid, Lighting has the word Light in it, of course it’s light speed.

Your brain must be malfunctioning if you think lighting is fast as light. Lighting contains somewhat mass which light doesn’t have.


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[Reply] #92
07-10-2011 11:17 PM
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Redx wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.

You didnt see goku go all around namek in an instant? maybe you saw but didnt read. He didnt have instant transmission at the time he learned it on yardrat the planet he escaped to after defeating frieza and leaving planet namek to explode.

Vegeta’s final flash didnt hit a planet it went far out into space until it wasnt seen really fast.

Piccolo hit the moon instantly with a generic ki blast, he did it faster than roshi.

Roshi blew up the moon just like piccolo did, only it took him a second or two.

Heres the final flash vid, I’m too sleepy to look for scans now youtube is faster.


@Paradox: look.



You didn’t need to re-post that, I was getting around to responding to it. Have a little patience.

1. No I didn’t seem him going all the way around Namek.

2. Yes, it did apparently go quite far into space; but that most certainly does NOT make it LS or FTL. We have no point of reference to judge how far the blast even went. We know that it AT LEAST travelled over 800 miles(800 miles is the end of Earth’s atmosphere).
Other than that it’s unquantifiable.

3. It did not hit the moon instantly.

[Reply] #93
07-10-2011 11:18 PM
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ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.


Goku doesn’t learn IT until after escaping Namek. Read my scan again. Goku was on the other side of a planet massively bigger than the Earth and flew to where Frieza and his friends were almost in an instant.



How do you know that they were on the other side of the planet? And what do you call Goku and Frieza INSTANTLY appearing behind each other during their fight? Sounds like IT to me.


Go back to my scan on pg 2 and click on the picture in yellow. What you need to know is in red. Also I’m telling you right now Goku doesn’t learn IT until he leaves Namek. I can show you if you want.

1. Goku learns IT from the metamorese so you are correct. 2. You’re using the back of volume ( technically front but w/e) as evidence. Besides the fact you need to show me a direct Japanese to English translation because " professional” companies like to change sentences, I need proof akira toriyama wrote the words for that. Otherwise it’s meaningless


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[Reply] #94
07-10-2011 11:20 PM
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Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Kinasin wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Joshstarwind wrote: IT would seem that in dbz they gan go light speed in small bursts, or at least near it. Thats why radditz is said to move the speed of lighting.



Instant transmission is not quantifiable in terms of speed.



In Marvels eyes it is. Whenever they have power grids if someone can teleport they put there speed at the highest on the grid.



Of course people with it would be at the top of the list. But things like: instant transmission, warping, teleporting ect. are not quantifiable in terms of speed. They are beyond speed.



You just quantified it though.



How do you figure that?


Teleportation is beyond speed. It’s the act of getting from point A to point B basically instantly. It’s been pretty well quantified. Your method of doing it might be different and your powers range as well might be different but there is a general quantifiable consensus on what it is.



Getting from point A to point B instantly, requires an infinite amount of speed. Therefore being unquantifiable in numbers.

Edited 07-10-2011 11:25 PM by Stygian
[Reply] #95
07-10-2011 11:21 PM
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ShawtyHot
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Shoddragon wrote:

ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

Redx wrote:

Paradox wrote:

ItsOver wrote: To everyone saying lighting isnt lightspeed dont forget that lighting can range from massively hypersonic to 1/2 the speed of light.



Actually, the average lightning bolt travels at about 3,700Mi/s compared to lights 186,000Mi/s. In other words; average lightning travels at a puny 1/48 the speed of light.

The super saiyan transformation multiplies everything by 50 so that would put him over lightspeed.



I fucked up the calc slightly. It’s actually about 1/50 the speed of light, not 1/48.

Anyway, is there a rough calculation of base Goku’s speed?

I yeah I remember reading a few threads a long time ago that had calced goku’s speed, but I wouldnt know how to find it, ask one of the hardcore DBZ debators if they know anything. I normally dont like to use calcs but thats just me. Also even if its only 1/50 goku does get massively faster throughout the entire series so he would still be over lightspeed.



No, he would not neccesarily be faster than light based on 'he gets faster throughout the series'. Without any ACTUAL evidence or something to powerscale his speed off of; then you have no way of saying that he is MFTL.

Well he made it all they around namek in an instant, thats something to go on. When their power increases everything else does, speed, durability, power, physical, strength, etc. Goku has trained so many times and gotten so many power-ups since his first super saiyan transformation.



Goku FLEW all the way around Namek in an instant? Are you sure it wasn’t through instant transmission?

lol He didnt even learn that yet. Look at the scans posted in the first couple pages.



I’ve never read the manga, so I’m going by my limited knowledge of the anime. In which, I’m pretty sure that Goku had instant transmission at the time. And I looked at all of the scans in this thread; what exactly are they supposed to be showing me?

Redx wrote: Vegeta&#146;s final flash against cell and when piccolo blew up the moon, master roshi too.



Again I don’t remember much of DBZ, so forgive my ignorance. What distant planet did Vegeta’s final flash hit, and where was he firing it from? As for Roshi and Piccollo destroying the moon; I MIGHT be able to calculate the speed of those ki blasts.


Goku doesn’t learn IT until after escaping Namek. Read my scan again. Goku was on the other side of a planet massively bigger than the Earth and flew to where Frieza and his friends were almost in an instant.



How do you know that they were on the other side of the planet? And what do you call Goku and Frieza INSTANTLY appearing behind each other during their fight? Sounds like IT to me.


Go back to my scan on pg 2 and click on the picture in yellow. What you need to know is in red. Also I’m telling you right now Goku doesn’t learn IT until he leaves Namek. I can show you if you want.

1. Goku learns IT from the metamorese so you are correct. 2. You’re using the back of volume ( technically front but w/e) as evidence. Besides the fact you need to show me a direct Japanese to English translation because " professional” companies like to change sentences, I need proof akira toriyama wrote the words for that. Otherwise it’s meaningless


I would show you if I knew how to but if you want to go by that logic than how would we ever know if the companies are lying or not? For all we know every single thing translated could be a lie. Also dont forget, Goku escapes from exploding light in an instant.


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What happened to the greatness on this site? Can we get back to this crack please?

Edited 07-11-2011 01:43 PM by ShawtyHot
[Reply] #96
07-10-2011 11:22 PM
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I wasn’t talking about IT, they can move near light speed in bursts. Not travel speed. That how they manage to get behind people with lightning reactions a.k.a Radditz. Remember speed in dbz only goes up from there.


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[Reply] #97
07-10-2011 11:22 PM
Rasen-Fucker
Guest

Slayer wrote:

DBZ 4 Life wrote:

Slayer wrote: Lighting speed =/= Light speed



You r stupid, Lighting has the word Light in it, of course it’s light speed.

Your brain must be malfunctioning if you think lighting is fast as light. Lighting contains somewhat mass which light doesn’t have.



dude he wrote a thread stating he is trolling for no reason so dont bother on that no life faggit

[Reply] #98
07-10-2011 11:24 PM
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Raditz being able to move FTL was a dub error.


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[Reply] #99
07-10-2011 11:27 PM
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lol who the fuck cares?

[Reply] #100
07-10-2011 11:28 PM
superfreshbiltz.
Guest

Shoddragon wrote: Some scenes are changed, filler, or even not present. The anime is non canon. Links to standard rules? Are you kidding. You can’t click vs forum and go to the rules?



double standards... standard rules also denotes you don’t use calcs, yet you do for OP. anyways, the OP is in charge, not you, and he didn’t specify. and it’s not that it’s even a filler or it changed the story by a bit (because we all know that’s what to look for, not explosions), it happened in the manga, so yes it is canon.

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