Remember me
[Forgot password?] [Register]
[Login]
menu

Goku Vs Superman Vs Naruto Vs Ichigo Vs Luffy Vs HST Vs Dragon Ball Z Vs Bleach x One Piece V Toriko

[1] 2 Next > Last >>

[Reply] #1
01-09-2013 06:06 AM
Joined: 12-15-2010
Posts: 2,656
offline
Dd
Dd
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 46

In order to have an objective debate, we apply certain real word scientific laws (say speed=distance/time etc) to fiction. These are done in a case by case basis and laws are ignored/modified when required (eg: FTL travel is made possible etc). In order to do this, proper scientific knowledge is required. 'Proper' as in knowledge earned in college and other institution AND NOT hastily learned pseudo knowledge from wikipedia/OBD etc.
Anyone who has debated creationist can nicely explain the horrors of pseudoscience. In a way the are similar to stans whose knowledge is solely based on Respect threads. Infact I came to the conclusion that Respect thread wankers are the most likely to use pseudoscience. I will explain my conclusion elaborately but first let me say something about the term 'Scientific Theory'.
There IS a difference between how laymen use the term 'theory' and how scientists use it. In fact, almost all the 'conclusions' that the Stans try to pass as 'theory' are 'hypothesis'(google the term) at best and hypocrisy at worst. This thread is made to expose the double STANdards employed by stans. So lets start:


__________________

CURRENTLY WATCHING wrote: Dragon Ball Super, Jojo Bizarre Adventure Diamond Is Unbreakable, Arrow, The Flash, Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow


[Reply] #2
01-09-2013 06:07 AM
Joined: 12-15-2010
Posts: 2,656
offline
Dd
Dd
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 46

1. Ignoring conservation of energy:
Explation: http://outskirtsbattledome.wikispaces.com/Trope
Comics:
This trope is used by stans to explain why supposed 'ugugu galaxy busters zomg' fail to destroy even a city when they clash OR why Darkseid going all out cannot planet bust etc etc
Manga:
Wouldn’t it be fair to apply the same standard/trope to DBZ? It will nicely explain why Ssj2 Vegeta going all out only leaved a crater when Frieza CAN planet bust OR why Roshi can moonbust when Piccolo’s strongest attack busted an island.
BUT, stans disagree. They will ask 'zomg where did all da energy disapear to?' and such shit. Using Double STANdard, they will 'conclude' that Roshi busting the moon (an important plot point) is a 'hurr inconsistency'.


__________________

CURRENTLY WATCHING wrote: Dragon Ball Super, Jojo Bizarre Adventure Diamond Is Unbreakable, Arrow, The Flash, Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow


Edited 01-09-2013 01:36 PM by Dd
[Reply] #3
01-09-2013 06:20 AM
Joined: 12-15-2010
Posts: 2,656
offline
Dd
Dd
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 46

2. Massive Speed In Outer Space 'Theory' (MSIOST):
This 'theory' is used by stans to explain why ki blasts reach the moon in seconds.
Manga:
Check this situation: A debater arguing for DBZ may say that:
>ki blasts reach the moon in seconds
>Z heroes/villains dodge these blasts all the time
>Z warriors are massively fast.
However, stans, not wanting Z warriors to be faster than comic characters, made up this theory: Supposedly the speed of all ki blasts increases 100 fold the moment they leave earth’s atmosphere due to unknown reasons. I won’t even bother list the FUCKTON of scientific laws this 'theory' violates. How did they reach this theory? Apparently based on 'consistant observations' (aka about 2 or 3 instances of normal humans observing ki blast from a distance during, say, Cell games etc)
Comics:
Wouldn’t it be fair use the same theory on comics? It will nicely explain why Thor, Surfer etc can travel vast intergalactic distance in short time BUT display barely superhuman speed in combat situations. Just like DBZ, normal humans can observe the likes of Thor during battle too. We should be able to state that:
'The speed of Thor, Surfer etc greatly increase by a huge factor during space travel due to unknown reasons reasons (just like ki blasts in DBZ)'
However stans disagree. Using Double STANdard, they 'conclude' than 'Terrax is zomg FTL in combat'.


__________________

CURRENTLY WATCHING wrote: Dragon Ball Super, Jojo Bizarre Adventure Diamond Is Unbreakable, Arrow, The Flash, Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow


Edited 01-09-2013 06:43 AM by Dd
[Reply] #4
01-09-2013 06:31 AM
Joined: 08-29-2011
Posts: 6,360
offline
Raiden Blackthorn
Raiden Blackthorn
Sexy Shopkeeper
Rep: 83

I like where this is going :P


__________________


you took the last cookie... BANKAI

[Reply] #5
01-09-2013 06:56 AM
Joined: 12-15-2010
Posts: 2,656
offline
Dd
Dd
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 46

3. Skin deep durability:
Manga:
Simple really. Almost everybody who argued with stans is aware of the 'Prove Frieza’s insides are as durable as his outside' bullshittery.
Comic:
When was the last time this argument was used against comics?
I mean I can understand special cases like, say, if the Z warrior is wearing an armour or something but Goku and co. generally wears none. The funny thing is Frieza, when he tanked Namek buster, was in two pieces and therefor his internals must have withstood the blast too.


__________________

CURRENTLY WATCHING wrote: Dragon Ball Super, Jojo Bizarre Adventure Diamond Is Unbreakable, Arrow, The Flash, Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD, DC’s Legends of Tomorrow


[Reply] #6
01-09-2013 08:41 AM
i smell it
Guest

your way too butthurt

[Reply] #7
01-09-2013 08:52 AM
Joined: 05-27-2011
Posts: 11,118
offline
Raizen
Raizen
Lord of bishonen
Rep: 109

indeed clever but mangaka and comic artist no a scientist straight

[Reply] #8
01-09-2013 09:15 AM
Joined: 06-17-2011
Posts: 20,541
offline
znjfl
znjfl
The Heroes
Rep: 156

I actually agree with most of what you say.

The only problem is, it works the other way around as well.

Speaking of double standards.


Considering you are such a SCIENTIST, and have AT LEAST a college education in everything you just said.

Explain to me how Superman and co. have barely supersonic combat speed(according to the highly intellectual educated masters of knowledge here on MvC)when he(and others like him) have proven multiple times to be capable of traveling MFTL.

If they can infact fly that fast, or run that fast or whatever, wouldnt they smash half the galaxy to pieces by running/flying into shit?

Dont they need the reaction speed(and followed by it, combat speed)to react to nearby objects, from space debris to planets and moons while zipping pass them at MFTL speeds?

And in Flash`s case even on Earth.


Apperently Flash is capable of picking off bullets from the air from two armies fighting a war, messing up and rearranging their equipment, having a lenghty chat with Cpt Atom and evacuating the battlefield from a nuclear explosion all in less than 100 microseconds(i have the scans if necesarry). But he is not capable of reacting to a fist coming at his face at a high hypersonic speed, again, according to these formerly mentioned masters of knowledge.


__________________

Edited 01-09-2013 09:17 AM by znjfl
[Reply] #9
01-09-2013 09:18 AM
DERP
Guest

Well not really given space is 99,999999999% empty.

Superman would never hit anything solid, even if he ventured through the entire universe.

Reaction speed is also measured in time, and because distances in space are so vast high reaction speed is hardly needed navigating there.

[Reply] #10
01-09-2013 10:08 AM
Joined: 06-17-2011
Posts: 20,541
offline
znjfl
znjfl
The Heroes
Rep: 156

DERP wrote: Well not really given space is 99,999999999% empty.

Superman would never hit anything solid, even if he ventured through the entire universe.

Reaction speed is also measured in time, and because distances in space are so vast high reaction speed is hardly needed navigating there.




Empty?

So every single asteroid, meteor, planet, star, etc, is nothing?


You are telling me someone who passes lightyears in seconds will not get in the path of a single fucking moon?

Its hardly needed for US. We have nothing that can go that fast.

When you can travel lightyears in seconds space is FULL.

And that still doesnt explain the second part i mentioned. About Flash.


__________________

Edited 01-09-2013 10:09 AM by znjfl
[Reply] #11
01-09-2013 10:14 AM
DERP
Guest

Yes.

[Reply] #12
01-09-2013 10:34 AM
Joined: 06-17-2011
Posts: 20,541
offline
znjfl
znjfl
The Heroes
Rep: 156

DERP wrote: Yes.




Well you are wrong.....a tree is not hard to bypass when running in the park either. Its mostly just open land, grass, a few flowers here and there. And a tree every 50-100 meters. Yet if you were supersonic and lacked the appropriate reactions you would mow down every single one of those trees.


__________________

[Reply] #13
01-09-2013 10:50 AM
Dd.
Guest

znjfl wrote: I actually agree with most of what you say.

The only problem is, it works the other way around as well.

Speaking of double standards.


Considering you are such a SCIENTIST, and have AT LEAST a college education in everything you just said.

Explain to me how Superman and co. have barely supersonic combat speed(according to the highly intellectual educated masters of knowledge here on MvC)when he(and others like him) have proven multiple times to be capable of traveling MFTL.

If they can infact fly that fast, or run that fast or whatever, wouldnt they smash half the galaxy to pieces by running/flying into shit?

Dont they need the reaction speed(and followed by it, combat speed)to react to nearby objects, from space debris to planets and moons while zipping pass them at MFTL speeds?

And in Flash`s case even on Earth.


Apperently Flash is capable of picking off bullets from the air from two armies fighting a war, messing up and rearranging their equipment, having a lenghty chat with Cpt Atom and evacuating the battlefield from a nuclear explosion all in less than 100 microseconds(i have the scans if necesarry). But he is not capable of reacting to a fist coming at his face at a high hypersonic speed, again, according to these formerly mentioned masters of knowledge.


Superman’s speed gets multipied by a large factor when travelling in outerspace.
Just like DBZ’s ki blasts

[Reply] #14
01-09-2013 10:52 AM
Joined: 02-12-2010
Posts: 337
offline
Astner
Astner
Regular
Rep: 26

Raizen wrote: indeed clever but mangaka and comic artist no a scientist


Perhaps not. But does the author have to be consciously aware of something for it to be a valid case?

Granted, I’m not as active in the versus communities as I used to be, but the best system I found was the one applied in the Killermovies community’s anime section. Where if there was evidently conflicting data or if you had a feat that was impossible according to the standard model that would be considered unquantifiable.


__________________



A lonely fermion in a quadratic gaugino field.

[Reply] #15
01-09-2013 11:04 AM
Joined: 02-12-2010
Posts: 337
offline
Astner
Astner
Regular
Rep: 26

znjfl wrote: Empty?

So every single asteroid, meteor, planet, star, etc, is nothing?

You are telling me someone who passes lightyears in seconds will not get in the path of a single fucking moon?


According to the standard model of quantum field theory; as the velocity of a body of mass approaches c the probability of interaction will approach zero.

So assuming that Superman flew at c and collided with a moon, he’d fly right through it without ever affecting it.

But light years in seconds? That’s not even understood. Then again, Superman’s travel speed tends to be somewhat of a plot device.

I agree with you on Flash’s speed though, but he has the speed force.


__________________



A lonely fermion in a quadratic gaugino field.

[Reply] #16
01-09-2013 11:14 AM
Joined: 03-16-2012
Posts: 1,563
offline
Suzunami Zanji
Suzunami Zanji
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 29

Why do we put in our logic and science in this anyway. They have their own rules to things unless the series' object are shown to be something close to ours and animanga have their own rules anyway.


__________________

Even though one is dumped, no matter how one shows his misfortune and seeks kindness, the world doesn’t give a damn about it
-Harima Kenji

[Reply] #17
01-09-2013 11:24 AM
Joined: 07-25-2012
Posts: 8,322
offline
Seiryu
Seiryu
THIS FIST CREATED ALL
Rep: 103

Astner wrote:

Raizen wrote: indeed clever but mangaka and comic artist no a scientist


Perhaps not. But does the author have to be consciously aware of something for it to be a valid case?

Granted, I’m not as active in the versus communities as I used to be, but the best system I found was the one applied in the Killermovies community’s anime section. Where if there was evidently conflicting data or if you had a feat that was impossible according to the standard model that would be considered unquantifiable.



Some authors suffer from critical research failure, where they try to use technobabble to explain why something happened, even if it’s something that is impossible in real life

Better yet, a wizard did it


__________________



BURN IT UP!

MAJIN GO!

[Reply] #18
01-09-2013 11:32 AM
Joined: 03-16-2012
Posts: 1,563
offline
Suzunami Zanji
Suzunami Zanji
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 29

Seiryu wrote:

Astner wrote:

Raizen wrote: indeed clever but mangaka and comic artist no a scientist


Perhaps not. But does the author have to be consciously aware of something for it to be a valid case?

Granted, I’m not as active in the versus communities as I used to be, but the best system I found was the one applied in the Killermovies community’s anime section. Where if there was evidently conflicting data or if you had a feat that was impossible according to the standard model that would be considered unquantifiable.



Some authors suffer from critical research failure, where they try to use technobabble to explain why something happened, even if it’s something that is impossible in real life

Better yet, a wizard did it



That’s why it’s ANIME! It’s not meant to be like our world unless it’s something like Jormungand.


__________________

Even though one is dumped, no matter how one shows his misfortune and seeks kindness, the world doesn’t give a damn about it
-Harima Kenji

[Reply] #19
01-09-2013 11:46 AM
Joined: 06-17-2011
Posts: 20,541
offline
znjfl
znjfl
The Heroes
Rep: 156

Dd. wrote:

znjfl wrote: I actually agree with most of what you say.

The only problem is, it works the other way around as well.

Speaking of double standards.


Considering you are such a SCIENTIST, and have AT LEAST a college education in everything you just said.

Explain to me how Superman and co. have barely supersonic combat speed(according to the highly intellectual educated masters of knowledge here on MvC)when he(and others like him) have proven multiple times to be capable of traveling MFTL.

If they can infact fly that fast, or run that fast or whatever, wouldnt they smash half the galaxy to pieces by running/flying into shit?

Dont they need the reaction speed(and followed by it, combat speed)to react to nearby objects, from space debris to planets and moons while zipping pass them at MFTL speeds?

And in Flash`s case even on Earth.


Apperently Flash is capable of picking off bullets from the air from two armies fighting a war, messing up and rearranging their equipment, having a lenghty chat with Cpt Atom and evacuating the battlefield from a nuclear explosion all in less than 100 microseconds(i have the scans if necesarry). But he is not capable of reacting to a fist coming at his face at a high hypersonic speed, again, according to these formerly mentioned masters of knowledge.


Superman’s speed gets multipied by a large factor when travelling in outerspace.
Just like DBZ’s ki blasts




Werent you the one who just called that theory bullshit?

Talk about double standard.


__________________

[Reply] #20
01-09-2013 11:51 AM
Joined: 06-17-2011
Posts: 20,541
offline
znjfl
znjfl
The Heroes
Rep: 156

Astner wrote:

znjfl wrote: Empty?

So every single asteroid, meteor, planet, star, etc, is nothing?

You are telling me someone who passes lightyears in seconds will not get in the path of a single fucking moon?


According to the standard model of quantum field theory; as the velocity of a body of mass approaches c the probability of interaction will approach zero.

So assuming that Superman flew at c and collided with a moon, he’d fly right through it without ever affecting it.

But light years in seconds? That’s not even understood. Then again, Superman’s travel speed tends to be somewhat of a plot device.

I agree with you on Flash’s speed though, but he has the speed force.



It was Silver Surfer who was stated to travel light years in seconds.

And Superman already flew at light speed and destroyed a shadow moon. Or was it 99% lightspeed?
Cant remember now.

Not to mention the very explanation of the IMP(infinite mass punch) is that Flash`s mass reaches the mass of a white dwarf star, which he punches with afterward.

But i dont know if the reason he can do that is the SPeed Force or if DC/Marvel just twist the laws a bit.


__________________

[1] 2 Next > Last >>

New Reply
Name (guest):

For faster posting and no restrictions: [Login] [Register]

Message:


 
 

[More Options] [New Topic]
Moderated by: Raziel, Zeroextra, znjfl, The Ancient Apocalypse, Hanbei, - FS -, Admins, Superusers [All moderators]
The Lounge Forums ©Silicon.dk ApS 2012 - Privacy Policy - Disclaimer - FAQ - Contact