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Let's have a mature discussion about the possible existence of an omnipotent creator deity

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[Reply] #41
02-27-2015 06:33 PM
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-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote: As for his omnipotence, how much does it matter whether he is nigh-omnipotent or true omnipotent?



PLEASE do not bring Vs. terminology, e.g. “nigh-omnipotent”, into discussions without providing an explanation of what the term entails.

As for the difference, alterations in capability either narrow or broaden what a deity entails and what arguments for/against do/do not apply. Vagueness gets nowhere.



Sorry. I’ve heard the term “nigh-omnipotent” use in non-vs related discussions before, so I figured that it wasn’t just a vs term. What I was trying to say is that people’s opinions differ when it comes to the subject of god’s abilities and power.


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[Reply] #42
02-27-2015 06:34 PM
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Xennotraun wrote:

-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote: As for his omnipotence, how much does it matter whether he is nigh-omnipotent or true omnipotent?



PLEASE do not bring Vs. terminology, e.g. “nigh-omnipotent”, into discussions without providing an explanation of what the term entails.

As for the difference, alterations in capability either narrow or broaden what a deity entails and what arguments for/against do/do not apply. Vagueness gets nowhere.



Sorry. I’ve heard the term “nigh-omnipotent” use in non-vs related discussions before, so I figured that it wasn’t just a vs term. What I was trying to say is that people’s opinions differ when it comes to the subject of god’s abilities and power.



Too many uncertain variables to really make much of a discussion out of it, then.


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[Reply] #43
02-27-2015 06:35 PM
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Xennotraun wrote:

-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote: As for his omnipotence, how much does it matter whether he is nigh-omnipotent or true omnipotent?



PLEASE do not bring Vs. terminology, e.g. “nigh-omnipotent”, into discussions without providing an explanation of what the term entails.

As for the difference, alterations in capability either narrow or broaden what a deity entails and what arguments for/against do/do not apply. Vagueness gets nowhere.



Sorry. I’ve heard the term “nigh-omnipotent” use in non-vs related discussions before, so I figured that it wasn’t just a vs term. What I was trying to say is that people’s opinions differ when it comes to the subject of god’s abilities and power.


Well, just pick one interpretation and stick with it.


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[Reply] #44
02-27-2015 06:35 PM
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The Living Tribunal wrote: there has been no proof so far, i will believe in him or her or it if we find proof or logical explanations



What’s your opinion on this?


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Edited 02-27-2015 06:35 PM by Xennotraun
[Reply] #45
02-27-2015 06:36 PM
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-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote:

-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote: As for his omnipotence, how much does it matter whether he is nigh-omnipotent or true omnipotent?



PLEASE do not bring Vs. terminology, e.g. “nigh-omnipotent”, into discussions without providing an explanation of what the term entails.

As for the difference, alterations in capability either narrow or broaden what a deity entails and what arguments for/against do/do not apply. Vagueness gets nowhere.



Sorry. I’ve heard the term “nigh-omnipotent” use in non-vs related discussions before, so I figured that it wasn’t just a vs term. What I was trying to say is that people’s opinions differ when it comes to the subject of god’s abilities and power.



Too many uncertain variables to really make much of a discussion out of it, then.



Why does his power matter though?

EDIT - What if we just say he’s powerful enough to create what we call reality?


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Edited 02-27-2015 06:38 PM by Xennotraun
[Reply] #46
02-27-2015 06:43 PM
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Xennotraun wrote:

The Living Tribunal wrote: there has been no proof so far, i will believe in him or her or it if we find proof or logical explanations



What’s your opinion on this?



Criticisms against multiverse theories, namely that it’s not empirically testable (and so on), can be equally levied against a designer.


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[Reply] #47
02-27-2015 06:46 PM
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Xennotraun wrote:

The Living Tribunal wrote: there has been no proof so far, i will believe in him or her or it if we find proof or logical explanations



What’s your opinion on this?


1- by life, they mean life as we know it
2- it is possible that other bizzare forms of physical existance could sustain unusual life, something we couldnt have thought to be posiible
so saying that all of the constants were kept specifically for carbon baed (matter based life) life to exist would be over interpretting things
i mean, who knows, other kinds of life- like things might exist in the extremties where people couldnt imagine that organized matter could exist


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[Reply] #48
02-27-2015 06:46 PM
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Xennotraun wrote: Why does his power matter though?

EDIT - What if we just say he’s powerful enough to create what we call reality?



The capability is just one aspect. It’s the entire design of the deity that levies different arguments one way or the other. E.g., if he can do everything, is good, and knows everything, that doesn’t fit with the status of the world. Among other arguments for/against.


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[Reply] #49
02-27-2015 07:57 PM
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-Tyreaus- wrote:

Xennotraun wrote: Why does his power matter though?

EDIT - What if we just say he’s powerful enough to create what we call reality?



The capability is just one aspect. It’s the entire design of the deity that levies different arguments one way or the other. E.g., if he can do everything, is good, and knows everything, that doesn’t fit with the status of the world. Among other arguments for/against.



Alright. Let’s try to defining “God” better.
Let’s say this is the Christian God, he is fully omniscient, he is omnipotent in the sense that he cannot do anything illogical, he has set an objective standard of what is Good and Evil, he is the creator of our reality, and Biblical Creationism is metaphorical. Am I missing anything?


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[Reply] #50
02-28-2015 07:16 PM
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Man tells stories of a god in man’s image and to whom controlling the behavior of man is the highest order of universal importance, because man has an ego and externalizes that ego as god.

If the Lord and Master of the universe is as he is described in the myths of Judaism and Christianity and Islam, he is a murderer and a tyrant unworthy of praise or emulation.

If the Universe has a Lord and Master, it is most likely a being of which no man has ever conceived and no myth has ever described. Regarding humans and human behavior he may be misanthropic, indifferent, or without any knowledge at all because we are simply beneath his notice.

There is no evidence at this time that such a being exists; let alone that he demands homage or has a plan for us or will sit in judgment of our immortal souls.

If god is just defined as the source of 'creation'--that which existed before our universe + caused our universe to exist--than we have done nothing more than ascribed a sentience to mathematical constants and called them 'God'


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Edited 02-28-2015 07:17 PM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #51
02-28-2015 08:10 PM
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B.J. Titty-Banger wrote: Regarding humans and human behavior he may be misanthropic, indifferent, or without any knowledge at all because we are simply beneath his notice.



I don’t know about that. If I were God, I’d keep an eye on intelligent life, as it might just become a race of universe-faring mass reality warpers.


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[Reply] #52
03-02-2015 06:58 AM
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So do you believe life just sprung out of non-existence? Explain how? Surely it would take a miracle for that to happen.

And also God is not something you can capture and dissect or put on a petri dish and examine with your microscope.

You “believe it is pretty unlikely” that God exists. And it’s probably going to stay that way for a long time. Only you can change your mind about that and no one else.

[Reply] #53
03-02-2015 11:20 PM
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I think he exists..because I do.


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[Reply] #54
03-03-2015 02:48 AM
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Bahamut wrote: So do you believe life just sprung out of non-existence? Explain how? Surely it would take a miracle for that to happen.

And also God is not something you can capture and dissect or put on a petri dish and examine with your microscope.

You “believe it is pretty unlikely” that God exists. And it’s probably going to stay that way for a long time. Only you can change your mind about that and no one else.

your magic sky daddy could. You know...if he was real...


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[Reply] #55
03-03-2015 09:01 AM
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B.J. Titty-Banger wrote:

Bahamut wrote: So do you believe life just sprung out of non-existence? Explain how? Surely it would take a miracle for that to happen.

And also God is not something you can capture and dissect or put on a petri dish and examine with your microscope.

You “believe it is pretty unlikely” that God exists. And it’s probably going to stay that way for a long time. Only you can change your mind about that and no one else.

your magic sky daddy could. You know...if he was real...



And who are you to say what God can and can’t do?

[Reply] #56
03-03-2015 09:56 AM
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Bahamut wrote: So do you believe life just sprung out of non-existence? Explain how? Surely it would take a miracle for that to happen.



Life didn’t just spring into existence. Abiogenesis was a slow and complicated process, and life has no definite beginning.


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[Reply] #57
03-03-2015 03:39 PM
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There is no proof that abiogenesis really happened. It’s just a theory.

Do you have any evidence to support what you’ve just said?

[Reply] #58
03-03-2015 05:25 PM
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Bahamut wrote: There is no proof that abiogenesis really happened. It’s just a theory.

Do you have any evidence to support what you’ve just said?



And what proof do you have that god started it? for all we know it could have been random, or even weirder Aliens could have started it.

[Reply] #59
03-03-2015 11:37 PM
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Bahamut wrote:

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote:

Bahamut wrote: So do you believe life just sprung out of non-existence? Explain how? Surely it would take a miracle for that to happen.

And also God is not something you can capture and dissect or put on a petri dish and examine with your microscope.

You “believe it is pretty unlikely” that God exists. And it’s probably going to stay that way for a long time. Only you can change your mind about that and no one else.

your magic sky daddy could. You know...if he was real...



And who are you to say what God can and can’t do?

By the accounting of biblical theists, he can do anything. And use to perform overwhelmingly apparent acts of divine intervention on a routine basis; making the earth stand still so that his favored armies could have more daylight to conquer cities and the like. Isn’t it odd that he stopped doing those things right around the time that humans invented cameras?


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Edited 03-03-2015 11:37 PM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #60
03-04-2015 04:56 AM
Bahamut
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Good point. Still, I’m not going to change my mind about God :P

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