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Is God's moral above humans?

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[Reply] #1
06-08-2015 11:17 PM
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I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?


*Edit: This is the christian god, being discussed.


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Edited 06-19-2015 07:25 PM by Macho
[Reply] #2
06-08-2015 11:33 PM
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God is good if human is good they with God


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[Reply] #3
06-08-2015 11:44 PM
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There’s two schools of thought on that one.

Ultimately, I think it depends on whether you think there’s objective good and bad, or if it’s all subjective.

[Reply] #4
06-09-2015 12:50 AM
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I wouldn’t simplify such a complex matter into just two categories.

If we choose subjective morality then you can easily argue in favor of god.

Object morality will naturally have an infinite amount of paradoxes.

But I think we can all agree on some basic moral principles. Like killing new borns.is morally bad.


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[Reply] #5
06-09-2015 12:59 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote: I wouldn’t simplify such a complex matter into just two categories.

If we choose subjective morality then you can easily argue in favor of god.

Object morality will naturally have an infinite amount of paradoxes.

But I think we can all agree on some basic moral principles. Like killing new borns.is morally bad.


I didn’t mean that it was entirely objective, I was just saying it wasn’t 100% subjective. There are justifications for things being immoral, and they’re not based entirely on peoples' opinions.

[Reply] #6
06-09-2015 01:04 AM
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Explain further. What are the justifications and if not based on human opinion then of what?


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[Reply] #7
06-09-2015 01:15 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote: I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?



Why you asking me, who cares about the philosophy of what is a God, or should there be one, or how should he/she acts, as long as creates a stable spiritual culture that promotes warriors like the jihadist or crusaders or the Boxers and establishes an totalitarian Imperial state that keeps the pagan or Abrahamic traditions and hates mediocrity and the decadence of materialistic capitalism. That’s all good with me, God can do what ever He wants and who are we to stop Him, He’s more wiser and knows all then we can ever hope to imagine.

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06-09-2015 01:18 AM
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This is the thing that Nietzsche was against, he was tried of people of thinking what if, or how should a person be, he wanted people to feel.

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06-09-2015 01:25 AM
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Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote: I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?



Why you asking me, who cares about the philosophy of what is a God, or should there be one, or how should he/she acts, as long as creates a stable spiritual culture that promotes warriors like the jihadist or crusaders or the Boxers and establishes an totalitarian Imperial state that keeps the pagan or Abrahamic traditions and hates mediocrity and the decadence of materialistic capitalism. That’s all good with me, God can do what ever He wants and who are we to stop Him, He’s more wiser and knows all then we can ever hope to imagine.


Given your explanation, you care. Re read what you wrote.


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[Reply] #10
06-09-2015 01:26 AM
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Why wouldn’t he? He created the universe in his image, what would make anyone think he wasn’t creating everything like he wanted in the first place?


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06-09-2015 01:33 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote:

Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote: I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?



Why you asking me, who cares about the philosophy of what is a God, or should there be one, or how should he/she acts, as long as creates a stable spiritual culture that promotes warriors like the jihadist or crusaders or the Boxers and establishes an totalitarian Imperial state that keeps the pagan or Abrahamic traditions and hates mediocrity and the decadence of materialistic capitalism. That’s all good with me, God can do what ever He wants and who are we to stop Him, He’s more wiser and knows all then we can ever hope to imagine.


Given your explanation, you care. Re read what you wrote.



I only care about the idea of religion and spiritually not in it’s morals.

[Reply] #12
06-09-2015 01:37 AM
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Brothar wrote: Why wouldn’t he? He created the universe in his image, what would make anyone think he wasn’t creating everything like he wanted in the first place?


Since your parents created you, then are they allowed to treat you as they desire? Obviously, based on your philosophy your parents must have a blast with you and you must follow all their commands.


Maybe so, maybe what the bad that we perceive that God does is actually right, regardless of how bad it is.

If I grant you this then you accept that stoning someone to death because they worked on a Sunday, is perfectly fine, correct?


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[Reply] #13
06-09-2015 01:39 AM
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Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote:

Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote: I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?



Why you asking me, who cares about the philosophy of what is a God, or should there be one, or how should he/she acts, as long as creates a stable spiritual culture that promotes warriors like the jihadist or crusaders or the Boxers and establishes an totalitarian Imperial state that keeps the pagan or Abrahamic traditions and hates mediocrity and the decadence of materialistic capitalism. That’s all good with me, God can do what ever He wants and who are we to stop Him, He’s more wiser and knows all then we can ever hope to imagine.


Given your explanation, you care. Re read what you wrote.



I only care about the idea of religion and spiritually not in it’s morals.


Religious ideas are based heavily on morals. That’s what theists pride themselves so much on.

So do you care about morals or you don’t care about religious ideas?


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[Reply] #14
06-09-2015 01:50 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote:

Brothar wrote: Why wouldn’t he? He created the universe in his image, what would make anyone think he wasn’t creating everything like he wanted in the first place?


Since your parents created you, then are they allowed to treat you as they desire? Obviously, based on your philosophy your parents must have a blast with you and you must follow all their commands.


Maybe so, maybe what the bad that we perceive that God does is actually right, regardless of how bad it is.

If I grant you this then you accept that stoning someone to death because they worked on a Sunday, is perfectly fine, correct?


My parents are Christian as fuck, and let me tell ya something:

They respect me, they love me, they treat me like a human being and not like a fucking dog.

They work me as they should on Sundays; like a man. They have me do yardwork in the summer and I sweat like a dog pants. I’m worth more to them than I’m worth to God in a chapel.

They respect me. There was a time where I told them I thought I was bisexual, and they were more worried about me not knowing what gender I was more into than that of me not knowing that I was into men than women despite the fact that I was a man.

I love my parents more than anyone because they respect me and my decisions no matter what anyone thinks of me.


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[Reply] #15
06-09-2015 01:54 AM
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Well that took an interest turn, to which I’m not entirely sure if you’re serious or taking the easy route out.


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[Reply] #16
06-09-2015 02:05 AM
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Brothar wrote: Why wouldn’t he? He created the universe in his image, what would make anyone think he wasn’t creating everything like he wanted in the first place?



when you think about it like that we are a mirror reflection of God

i wonder what if make a second mirror or have a mirror room


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[Reply] #17
06-09-2015 02:16 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote: Explain further. What are the justifications and if not based on human opinion then of what?


Well, let’s just say you give a definition on what it is that’s moral or immoral. A common place to draw the line is when you harm another living being in some way. Okay, if that’s what you use to define morality, then you have a starting point. Case by case, you might have to fudge it to some extent, but you still have a semi-objective stance on it in that you know generally what’s right and wrong from that.

If you consider morality to be entirely subjective, then that would mean it’s based entirely on opinion. If the majority believe that punching a dude in the face is bad, then it’s bad whatever the minority believe. If they believe it’s moral, then it is no matter what the minority believe.

If you add God to the mix, it changes things a bit. He’s the supreme authority, so His word would be law in the case of the latter. If He were to, say, drown out the planet and almost wipe out the human race, that’s all well and good because humans' opinions don’t mean shit in the face of Him. If you have a definition of morality that says it’s completely immoral to do that, though, then what he’s doing is wrong. It doesn’t stop Him, but it’s true.

[Reply] #18
06-09-2015 02:21 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote:

Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote:

Tupacian Fascist wrote:

Van Hohenheim wrote: I’ve heard people argue that God can do as he pleases because, well he’s god he’s allowed to do anything he wants.

Do most theist agree with this?



Why you asking me, who cares about the philosophy of what is a God, or should there be one, or how should he/she acts, as long as creates a stable spiritual culture that promotes warriors like the jihadist or crusaders or the Boxers and establishes an totalitarian Imperial state that keeps the pagan or Abrahamic traditions and hates mediocrity and the decadence of materialistic capitalism. That’s all good with me, God can do what ever He wants and who are we to stop Him, He’s more wiser and knows all then we can ever hope to imagine.


Given your explanation, you care. Re read what you wrote.



I only care about the idea of religion and spiritually not in it’s morals.


Religious ideas are based heavily on morals. That’s what theists pride themselves so much on.

So do you care about morals or you don’t care about religious ideas?



I care about law and order and religion gives both, which is more than I can say about the leftist atheism. So yes I do, I’m an agnostic but I will convert to Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity in later life.

[Reply] #19
06-09-2015 03:20 AM
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To have a belief in God is to believe in an all knowing and infinitely wise being. The believer would argue that any moral judgements by this being would be for the best as a matter of course. I know this kind of skirts the question but it also effectively renders it moot.


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[Reply] #20
06-09-2015 11:29 AM
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Van Hohenheim wrote: I wouldn’t simplify such a complex matter into just two categories.

If we choose subjective morality then you can easily argue in favor of god.

Object morality will naturally have an infinite amount of paradoxes.

But I think we can all agree on some basic moral principles. Like killing new borns.is morally bad.



How can you easily argue in favor of God if there’s subjective morality? Almost every atheist I know would disagree with this. If morality is subjective, what’s the purpose of God for morality.

If anything, if there’s objective morality, then the Theist can argue that God, being the supreme transcendent being of absolute love, is also the supreme transcendent being of absolute goodness, and as the being of absolute goodness, He is the standard for morality and without him, there’s no source or foundation for objective moral standards.

I’ve read Sam Harris and other atheist try to explain that there is objective morality, but their explanation leads me to believe there really isn’t objective moral values and standards. In fact Harris states that the flourishing of human well being is that standard. But how exactly do we know that what u define as the flourishing of human well being is in fact the same as my definition. You see, subjective morality, if it exist (that is to say if there’s no such thing as objective morality) almost completely falsifies A supreme transcendent being of moral goodness. Because why would such a thing exist if there’s no need for the standard of objective morality.

Also to answer your question,I would think the Theist believes God’s morals to be above that of humans. After all, the belief is that God is perfectly good and humans aren’t

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