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How Much Longer Does Religion Have

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[Reply] #1
04-18-2016 12:03 AM
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Macho
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At the rate more countries are becoming industrialized and more educated, religion is becoming less and less followed. Even in the US the population is becoming more secular.

I’d say that in about 100 years 50% of the population will be secular.

Or will it not.


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Edited 04-18-2016 12:04 AM by Macho
[Reply] #2
04-21-2016 12:36 PM
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100 years? Are you kidding? I assume that in my school in europe (about 800 students) there are not more than 50 religious students. Tbh I was kinda shocked when I found out that still more than 50% of people are religious some months ago, I thought the number of religious people would be about 15%. But yeah I’m young, I don’t know what old people believe. The thing is that all those old people(and probably even I) will be dead in 100 years. And then there for sure won’t be more than 10% religious people. Maybe the US will have like 20%.

[Reply] #3
04-21-2016 12:57 PM
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Islam will remain strong after all those years sadly.

[Reply] #4
04-21-2016 03:14 PM
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Not a lot

[Reply] #5
04-21-2016 09:37 PM
The Matador
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Valaraukar wrote: 100 years? Are you kidding? I assume that in my school in europe (about 800 students) there are not more than 50 religious students. Tbh I was kinda shocked when I found out that still more than 50% of people are religious some months ago, I thought the number of religious people would be about 15%. But yeah I’m young, I don’t know what old people believe. The thing is that all those old people(and probably even I) will be dead in 100 years. And then there for sure won’t be more than 10% religious people. Maybe the US will have like 20%.


And here I was thinking 100 was too short.

[Reply] #6
04-21-2016 10:58 PM
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Valaraukar wrote: 100 years? Are you kidding? I assume that in my school in europe (about 800 students) there are not more than 50 religious students.


Because younger people don’t have enough life experience. Most kids don’t care about existential questions. That is why people who come to God do so when they are older.

That is also why I don’t think we should count children who are brought up with God as religious or children who are brought up without God as atheists. It’s a decision that everyone has to come to on their own.

[Reply] #7
04-22-2016 09:27 AM
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Jedi Master wrote:

Valaraukar wrote: 100 years? Are you kidding? I assume that in my school in europe (about 800 students) there are not more than 50 religious students.


Because younger people don’t have enough life experience. Most kids don’t care about existential questions. That is why people who come to God do so when they are older.

That is also why I don’t think we should count children who are brought up with God as religious or children who are brought up without God as atheists. It’s a decision that everyone has to come to on their own.


Do you believe that a good percentage of elderly people who are religious now were irreligious when they were younger?


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[Reply] #8
04-22-2016 11:20 AM
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1. What is “a good precentage”

2. What do you mean with religious? There are devoutly religious people and then there are people who identify with a religion.

[Reply] #9
04-22-2016 01:51 PM
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Jedi Master wrote: 1. What is “a good precentage”

2. What do you mean with religious? There are devoutly religious people and then there are people who identify with a religion.


I’ll reword it:
What percentage, would you estimate, of elderly who identify as religious now would have identified as irreligious in the pre-adult years of their life (under 21)?


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[Reply] #10
04-22-2016 06:18 PM
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Need I say remind that being atheist or any close derivative of this was a death sentence in the not so far past.

We do live in a different time where god is less relevant, people look for other ways to escape this world and it is socially acceptable to indulge in questionable behavior, instead of it just being religion.

[Reply] #11
04-22-2016 09:43 PM
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The Matador wrote: Need I say remind that being atheist or any close derivative of this was a death sentence in the not so far past.

We do live in a different time where god is less relevant, people look for other ways to escape this world and it is socially acceptable to indulge in questionable behavior, instead of it just being religion.



Actually atheism was probably more prevalent, or at least more forcefully vocal, during the early 20th century when it came to academics. I.E. the vienna circle and such.

For whatever reason people have the false idea as if atheism is this new thing that started a few decades ago, and is going to replace religion in several more. Reality is that atheism has been very prevalent and known in society since the late 19th century. And like all ideas, its had its ups and downs ever sense.

There is also the obvious fact of western bias into this as well.

[Reply] #12
04-22-2016 09:55 PM
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Xennotraun wrote:

Jedi Master wrote: 1. What is “a good precentage”

2. What do you mean with religious? There are devoutly religious people and then there are people who identify with a religion.


I’ll reword it:
What percentage, would you estimate, of elderly who identify as religious now would have identified as irreligious in the pre-adult years of their life (under 21)?



If you don’t mind me commenting on your discussion, I’d say the answer varies greatly by region. Read my previous comment as well, since it’s pretty much the same way. It depends on how much western bias one has.

Remember that religious beliefs change frequently, and chances are that today’s generations (including the whole word: asia, europe, americas, etc..) don’t share the exact same beliefs as their ancestors just 100 years ago.

So to answer your original comment, again it depends on region. I would say that lets say in latin america, very few (probably less than 30%) of adults hold different beliefs than what they grew up with. However in places with big changes, i.e. the collapse of the atheistic soviet union and rise of religion in Russia, people born in the 70s would have grown up in atheistric or restricted religious homes...were now they have full freedom to express. Perhaps even up to 30% or so.

Ultimately I can’t really give a guess as to the whole world, since I wouldn’t know what the past and current situations of asia, africa, and other parts are.

[Reply] #13
04-23-2016 05:06 PM
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Ricdog wrote:
Actually atheism was probably more prevalent, or at least more forcefully vocal, during the early 20th century when it came to academics. I.E. the vienna circle and such.

For whatever reason people have the false idea as if atheism is this new thing that started a few decades ago, and is going to replace religion in several more. Reality is that atheism has been very prevalent and known in society since the late 19th century. And like all ideas, its had its ups and downs ever sense.

There is also the obvious fact of western bias into this as well.


Even though a lack of belief in god has been tolerated in some parts of the word for the past 200-300 years it was, at very least, not socially acceptable. To this day even in the USA it’s frowned upon. That’s why most atheist are, let’s say, of a rough attitude. And can you blame them? They’re doing something that takes courage to do because they’re shun for it.

Atheism wasn’t enjoyed by the general population back then, it was mostly intellectuals that made that huge leap and took the risk of being an open atheist and their stories aren’t very joyous.


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Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #14
04-23-2016 05:08 PM
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Macho
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Ricdog wrote:

Xennotraun wrote:

Jedi Master wrote: 1. What is “a good precentage”

2. What do you mean with religious? There are devoutly religious people and then there are people who identify with a religion.


I’ll reword it:
What percentage, would you estimate, of elderly who identify as religious now would have identified as irreligious in the pre-adult years of their life (under 21)?



If you don’t mind me commenting on your discussion, I’d say the answer varies greatly by region. Read my previous comment as well, since it’s pretty much the same way. It depends on how much western bias one has.

Remember that religious beliefs change frequently, and chances are that today’s generations (including the whole word: asia, europe, americas, etc..) don’t share the exact same beliefs as their ancestors just 100 years ago.

So to answer your original comment, again it depends on region. I would say that lets say in latin america, very few (probably less than 30%) of adults hold different beliefs than what they grew up with. However in places with big changes, i.e. the collapse of the atheistic soviet union and rise of religion in Russia, people born in the 70s would have grown up in atheistric or restricted religious homes...were now they have full freedom to express. Perhaps even up to 30% or so.

Ultimately I can’t really give a guess as to the whole world, since I wouldn’t know what the past and current situations of asia, africa, and other parts are.


Soviet Union wasn’t atheist, Stalin was god. Just like in North Korea.


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“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #15
04-24-2016 05:53 PM
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Valaraukar
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Jedi Master wrote:

Valaraukar wrote: 100 years? Are you kidding? I assume that in my school in europe (about 800 students) there are not more than 50 religious students.


Because younger people don’t have enough life experience. Most kids don’t care about existential questions. That is why people who come to God do so when they are older.

That is also why I don’t think we should count children who are brought up with God as religious or children who are brought up without God as atheists. It’s a decision that everyone has to come to on their own.



I know but I mean I am only 15 but I made that decision for myself. My dad is a convinced atheist, my mom believes in “something but it’s not an old man with a castle in the clouds” my parents didn’t really say god exists or he doesn’t exist they just didn’t really talk about it. I mean yes if a family member dies and you have to tell it to a kid who is like 4 years old you don’t say he’s dead. You say he’s in heaven or something like that but kids stop believing that and also stop believing in the easter bunny. But I don’t talk about those people, I mean people from 13 until death. I thought about religion and I came to the conclusion that it’s probably not true. And There are reasons for that, and because of these reasons I don’t understand how I could get into religion even if I get older. I honestly don’t know anyone who is actually is religious and can identify himself with an existing religion and is below 40 in age and not a religion teacher. Except for muslims maybe but where I live aren’t that many muslims. Of course atheism isn’t a new thing but it just wasn’t as common as it is now. It was usual to believe in god 500 years ago. But after the renessaince there were less and less religious people and the number is sinking and I mean I don’t know how it looks in asia or africa but here in europe I’m pretty sure about my estimation. Not long ago it still was wayy more common to believe in god but once all those people are dead nobody will be religious anymore and if nobody is religious barely anyone will start being. And atheists won’t start becoming religious either just by getting older. Actually my religion teacher doesn’t even believe into jesus walking on water and stuff himself.

Edited 04-24-2016 05:55 PM by Valaraukar
[Reply] #16
04-24-2016 07:20 PM
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As time passes, even the religious move away from literalist interpretations(barring movements to counteract this via sheer self-awareness of this trend). Since the renaissance and many scientific advents afterwards, religion has become non-integral in the movement of discovery within the natural world(likely beginning in the sheer recognition of a natural world; in fact, I would say myself that the shift from the viewpoint of “God constantly interferes with our world” to “God has put forth in place a system of laws governing our world” as perhaps the greatest fundamental idea and impetus for Human Kind’s discovery.), and religion has become non-essential in the major scientific bodies of developed nations. The establishment of a worldly consistency of sort was more or less the beginning of the end of religion, despite how far back that idea originated from, looking at the grand scheme of things.


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[Reply] #17
05-05-2016 12:44 AM
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Ricdog
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Macho wrote:

Ricdog wrote:
Actually atheism was probably more prevalent, or at least more forcefully vocal, during the early 20th century when it came to academics. I.E. the vienna circle and such.

For whatever reason people have the false idea as if atheism is this new thing that started a few decades ago, and is going to replace religion in several more. Reality is that atheism has been very prevalent and known in society since the late 19th century. And like all ideas, its had its ups and downs ever sense.

There is also the obvious fact of western bias into this as well.


Even though a lack of belief in god has been tolerated in some parts of the word for the past 200-300 years it was, at very least, not socially acceptable. To this day even in the USA it’s frowned upon. That’s why most atheist are, let’s say, of a rough attitude. And can you blame them? They’re doing something that takes courage to do because they’re shun for it.

Atheism wasn’t enjoyed by the general population back then, it was mostly intellectuals that made that huge leap and took the risk of being an open atheist and their stories aren’t very joyous.



Actually atheism was quite known and noticeably present in top academic and political positions for a long time now. Like you said, even from around 300 years ago. And although not the most popular, it wasn’t entirely hated.

Really it was just the uneducated people (which obviously made most of the population) that probably didn’t have much of a favorable view of it, if any at all. Obviously now that modern societies provide basic education to all it’s citizens, more people simply know about the subject.

So really the increase in atheism hasn’t really given it any more credence than before, its just simply a reflection of the general population playing catch up to where modern intellectual’s stand on the issue.

[Reply] #18
05-05-2016 12:51 AM
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Macho wrote:

Ricdog wrote:

Xennotraun wrote:

Jedi Master wrote: 1. What is “a good precentage”

2. What do you mean with religious? There are devoutly religious people and then there are people who identify with a religion.


I’ll reword it:
What percentage, would you estimate, of elderly who identify as religious now would have identified as irreligious in the pre-adult years of their life (under 21)?



If you don’t mind me commenting on your discussion, I’d say the answer varies greatly by region. Read my previous comment as well, since it’s pretty much the same way. It depends on how much western bias one has.

Remember that religious beliefs change frequently, and chances are that today’s generations (including the whole word: asia, europe, americas, etc..) don’t share the exact same beliefs as their ancestors just 100 years ago.

So to answer your original comment, again it depends on region. I would say that lets say in latin america, very few (probably less than 30%) of adults hold different beliefs than what they grew up with. However in places with big changes, i.e. the collapse of the atheistic soviet union and rise of religion in Russia, people born in the 70s would have grown up in atheistric or restricted religious homes...were now they have full freedom to express. Perhaps even up to 30% or so.

Ultimately I can’t really give a guess as to the whole world, since I wouldn’t know what the past and current situations of asia, africa, and other parts are.


Soviet Union wasn’t atheist, Stalin was god. Just like in North Korea.



Well Stalin may have wanted to portray himself like one of those divine rulers, he never truly reached that status widely. Heck his own communist regime changed as soon as he died. Neither his high command or even the general population ever viewed him much more than simply a highly respected leader. But he definitely fell short of being seen as “divine” by most.

I can’t really speak about North Korea, since I don’t know much about studies on their demographic views.

[Reply] #19
05-05-2016 03:51 PM
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Macho wrote: Soviet Union wasn’t atheist, Stalin was god. Just like in North Korea.


1. There is no religion around Stalin.
2. Soviet and NK are atheist.

[Reply] #20
05-11-2016 10:51 PM
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Ricdog wrote:

Actually atheism was quite known and noticeably present in top academic and political positions for a long time now. Like you said, even from around 300 years ago. And although not the most popular, it wasn’t entirely hated.


Most of the time it didn’t have a happy ending for the non believer. So entirely hated? No, but close enough.

Ricdog wrote:
Really it was just the uneducated people (which obviously made most of the population) that probably didn’t have much of a favorable view of it, if any at all. Obviously now that modern societies provide basic education to all it’s citizens, more people simply know about the subject.

So really the increase in atheism hasn’t really given it any more credence than before, its just simply a reflection of the general population playing catch up to where modern intellectual’s stand on the issue.


You don’t think that the fact that intellectuals are more secular than the average population, is an indication of higher credibility for the non belief in god?
This question doesn’t really matter in the end. I already know your answer.


Ricdog wrote:
Well Stalin may have wanted to portray himself like one of those divine rulers, he never truly reached that status widely. Heck his own communist regime changed as soon as he died. Neither his high command or even the general population ever viewed him much more than simply a highly respected leader. But he definitely fell short of being seen as divine by most.

I cant really speak about North Korea, since I dont know much about studies on their demographic views.




Actually:
“Joseph Stalin’s cult of personality became a prominent part of Soviet culture in December 1929, after a lavish celebration for Stalin’s 50th birthday.[1] For the rest of Stalin’s rule, the Soviet press presented Stalin as an all-powerful, all-knowing leader, and Stalin’s name and image became omnipresent. From 1936 the Soviet journalism started to refer to Joseph Stalin as the Father of Nations."


" The cult of personality primarily existed among the Soviet masses; there was no explicit manifestation of the cult among the members of the Politburo and other high-ranking Party officials. "

The masses considered him a god, so it was widespread in Russia and the cult only died because it was destroyed by the government after his death.

" After Stalin’s death, Nikita Khrushchev’s 1956 “Secret Speech” to the Twentieth Party Congress famously denounced Stalin’s cult of personality, saying, “It is impermissible and foreign to the spirit of Marxism-Leninism to elevate one person, to transform him into a superman possessing supernatural characteristics akin to those of a god.“[22] The “Secret Speech” initiated a political reform, known as De-Stalinization, that sought to eradicate Stalin’s influence on the Soviet society."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin%27s_cult_of_personality

And North Korea is basically Russia when Stalin was alive, but worse.


__________________


“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

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