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War on ISIS

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[Reply] #61
03-27-2015 01:20 AM
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Psychopeth
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General Marcusius wrote: Not saying there’s anything like that going on behind the scene but how does ISIS making rest of the world dislike and fear Muslims not benefit Israel?

Because it’s causing Iran’s sphere of influence to expand.


At this point it’s looking more like Iran is going to start running things being as they are the ones handling ISIS the most right now and gaining massive support in Iraq as Iran is doing what most political powers in Iraq want the US to be doing.

And in the event congress and Israel have their way then Iran won’t be that friendly to the US and thus we’re losing ground that we had under our thumb during our post-war control of the region that we lost almost completely when Obama pulled out.


The fact is there isn’t even a need for the oil over there. the US doesn’t even get that much oil from the middle east. So for those of you saying we want control for the oil, you should really do your research.


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[Reply] #62
03-27-2015 01:23 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: Nothing except an enemy in the region that gives the green light for continued military presence and influence by the US because of increased hostility and an enemy for Israel to say “hey look there’s more terrorists who hate us!"

You think Israel isn’t a superpower? They have incredible influence over a superpower, which is all-but the same thing. Hell, even two of Israel’s prime ministers have bluntly said that the state controls America. And to be frank, it takes a whole lot of purposeful ignorance not to be even somewhat aware of this.

But yeah, let’s not ignore all the clear evidence pointing towards ISIS either being a total conspiracy or at least being a group being used as a proxy, similar to how we, the US, funded a well-known group in the past. Gotta look at Britain as well.

If you’re wondering who the groups funding them are, look at the sunni political powers in the middle east. There are several organizations that have merged under ISIS as well to provide the funding needed. plus they have the support of many civilians in the area, just about as much as they have civilians who hate them... though those are becoming an endangered species with time.


As much as people like to paint ISIS as some terrorist group like those in the past, this is much bigger than that. They operate more like a country than a terrorist organization and thus they have managed to grow and through taxes gain funds that otherwise would be unavailable to them.



I’m Just saying that it seems odd that the US or Israel would go through the trouble of something like this when everything you’ve stated was basically already theirs or easier to attain through other methods. Making a small nation form and eat away at natural resources and destroying historic landmarks seems like a bit much to achieve something so minor that they already had in the bag.


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Edited 03-27-2015 01:26 AM by Psychopeth
[Reply] #63
03-27-2015 01:46 AM
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I’m really not arguing that there isn’t two sides to them, because I’m sure there are. There are most likely simple extremists that are part of the group who really do want to just carry out their ideology.

But you gotta look at both sides. An MI6 operative was found to be amongst them. Now call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but I find it exceedingly hard to believe that he simply decided “hey, I’m gonna turn to Islam and carry out Jihad after serving such an intelligence agency”. He’s not the first even.

Lots of people disregard him because he’s sometimes hotheaded, but Alex Jones honestly is one of the most informed people getting information out there. Here’s an interesting read:

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-intelligence-asset/

Edited 03-27-2015 01:50 AM by Rich-616
[Reply] #64
03-27-2015 01:53 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: I’m really not arguing that there isn’t two sides to them, because I’m sure there are. There are most likely simple extremists that are part of the group who really do want to just carry out their ideology.

But you gotta look at both sides. An MI6 operative was found to be amongst them. Now call me a conspiracy theorist or whatever, but I find it exceedingly hard to believe that he simply decided “hey, I’m gonna turn to Islam and carry out Jihad after serving such an intelligence agency”. He’s not the first even.

Lots of people disregard him because he’s sometimes hotheaded, but Alex Jones honestly is one of the most informed people getting information out there. Here’s an interesting read:

http://www.infowars.com/nsa-doc-reveals-isis-leader-al-baghdadi-is-u-s-british-and-israeli-intelligence-asset/

It wouldn’t be the first case of someone getting the powers and resources needed to carry out their own agenda then kicking out their benefactors.


The name Mao comes to mind. but I get a feeling you don’t remember that part of history because it’s not nearly as edgy to talk about him and his betrayals.


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[Reply] #65
03-27-2015 01:58 AM
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It also wouldn’t be the first time a country used a group for their own purposes while blasting them as terrorists either.

I remember Mao specifically for how controversial a figure he was. It has nothing to do with being edgy, it’s more of “hey, there’s an elephant in the room, let’s do something about that."

Edited 03-27-2015 01:59 AM by Rich-616
[Reply] #66
03-27-2015 02:00 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: It also wouldn’t be the first time a country used a group for their own purposes while blasting them as terrorists either.

I remember Mao specifically for how controversial a figure he was. It has nothing to do with being edgy, it’s more of “hey, there’s an elephant in the room, let’s do something about that.“

Then enlighten me on how Mao would be a perfect example of how this isn’t a US/British/Israeli proxy operation.

If indeed you do know your history.


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Edited 03-27-2015 02:01 AM by Psychopeth
[Reply] #67
03-27-2015 02:07 AM
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I know that supporters of Mao credited him with establishing China as a world power, and raising life expectancy while others considered him a dictator. That’s about it.

That’s irrelevant though, I was never particularly interested on the subject..

Edited 03-27-2015 02:10 AM by Rich-616
[Reply] #68
03-27-2015 02:12 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: I know that supporters of Mao credited him with establishing China as a world power, and raising life expectancy while others considered him a dictator. That’s about it.

That irrelevant though, I was never particularly interested on the subject..

thus possibly proving my point earlier that your interest in this is only due to the fact it’s a hot topic, not because you genuinely care, or rather you only care because other people do as well. Ergo making your stance seem ever more like it’s the product of simply being controversial. But that’s simply speculation on my part.

More to the point Mao was supplied and funded by the Russian government as he promised to become another soviet state of sorts, basically he promised to spread Russia’s style of communism if Russia ensured his unification of the then broken country of China... however after he had all he needed from Russia he basically told them not to hit the door on their way out. He is a perfect example of someone founding a country based on betrayal. It isn’t out of the question that in the event it’s true that the leader of ISIS is an intelligence agent from another country that they are now going rogue or plan to do so in the future and are simply using their past/current benefactor.


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Edited 03-27-2015 02:15 AM by Psychopeth
[Reply] #69
03-27-2015 02:22 AM
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Rich-616
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Well that’s not only insulting but also untrue. I care because people are dying and we’re not getting the real story one way or the other. Please don’t come at me sideways like that. I wouldn’t be talking about it seriously if I didn’t actually care.

But of course, you could be right. Anything’s possible, it’s not like either of us are holding the holy grail, alpha-omega of evidence in our hands. However I myself believe ISIS is being used by the US, Israel and Britain to further the atmosphere of Muslim fear to place the world in a place of nervousness where we’re more willing to support continued military campaigns in the region, and ultimately lead to a war with Iran. Time will tell.

Edited 03-27-2015 02:23 AM by Rich-616
[Reply] #70
03-27-2015 02:29 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: Well that’s not only insulting but also untrue. I care because people are dying and we’re not getting the real story one way or the other. Please don’t come at me sideways like that. I wouldn’t be talking about it seriously if I didn’t actually care.

But of course, you could be right. Anything’s possible, it’s not like either of us are holding the holy grail, alpha-omega of evidence in our hands. However I myself believe ISIS is being used by the US, Israel and Britain to further the atmosphere of Muslim fear to place the world in a place of nervousness where we’re more willing to support continued military campaigns in the region, and ultimately lead to a war with Iran. Time will tell.

Then don’t try and smear my stance by using such sleazy tactics as

Rich-616 wrote:

Please don’t tell me you’re drinking Shob’s Kool-Aid.

and I won’t have reason to.



And again, if I were given a motive for action I would at least have a reason to believe your stance to be possibly true. But as it stands We’ve only lost money and lost face due to the ISIS situation. We’re kinda being laughed at as we left the place a mess and now we’re going back because we fucked up.


Again, Oil can’t be the reason as the middle east doesn’t have nearly enough oil export to the US to warrant such an expensive undertaking.


And it can’t be expanding Israel geographically as the current leader of Israel is even going for a two state solution rather than annexation.


So what does fear mongering do when Muslims ALREADY are feared and the British already have enough political dirt on the Muslim people due to the culture clash going on back in the UK’s own backyard due to refugees?

that’s basically what I want to know. if there’s no motive your entire hypothesis kinda falls short and becomes little more than gut instinct.


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Edited 03-27-2015 02:30 AM by Psychopeth
[Reply] #71
03-27-2015 02:34 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: I really don’t know what to think of ISIS. I have a sneaking suspicion that they’re a proxy group being used by the US, Britain and Israel.



Rich-616 wrote: Alex Jones honestly is one of the most informed people getting information out there.



^
These 2 posts belong next to eachother


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[Reply] #72
03-27-2015 02:36 AM
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Final nail in Al-Qaeda’s coffin,btw.

The Taliban just switched allegiances and pledged for ISIS.


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Edited 03-27-2015 02:38 AM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #73
03-27-2015 02:42 AM
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You made light of my statement, I retorted.

Netanyahu said he would go against a two state solution to win the election, and then immediately turned around and said to the media “actually I’m open to it." The guy will say whatever he has to. If he wanted a two state solution we’d have seen some progress long ago.

What I believe their goal is, is monetary control. Control over the flow of money between the Middle East. And just as importantly, media control, which leads to influence over how people interpret and react to global and social issues. What greater power is there than the power to be able to convince entire nations to believe what you want. To me it’s about social and financial control. Via the media, citizens, and banks.

[Reply] #74
03-27-2015 02:47 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: You made light of my statement, I retorted.

Netanyahu said he would go against a two state solution to win the election, and then immediately turned around and said to the media “actually I’m open to it." The guy will say whatever he has to. If he wanted a two state solution we’d have seen some progress long ago.

What I believe their goal is, is monetary control. Control over the flow of money between the Middle East. And just as importantly, media control, which leads to influence over how people interpret and react to global and social issues. What greater power is there than the power to be able to convince entire nations to believe what you want. To me it’s about social and financial control. Via the media, citizens, and banks.

If that was their goal being spread out so thin and breeding chaotic groups like ISIS would be counter productive.


The first thing about media spinning is that you need structure and things to go as smoothly as possible with as few loose ends as possible. That way people have nothing to doubt, no reason to doubt, and no sources of doubt. The middle east situation has done nothing but make the US government lose the faith of a large portion of it’s citizens as well as make it look very bad in the eyes of the rest of the world.


and money wise the middle east’s financial value is decreasing by the day due to these struggles....

so again, where’s the boon for this overly complex quest for power?


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[Reply] #75
03-27-2015 02:56 AM
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That’s an idealistic way to look at it. That’s not a goal you achieve without scheming, risky moves and tons of corruption. And as we’ve seen people sometimes are smart, and notice things. They try to be as clever as can be, but even these countries and their intelligence agencies slip up. And they meet resistance. There’s so many factors, I don’t pretend to understand it all but I stand by my opinion of the US, Britain and Israel. There’s clearly smoke to the fire.

I’m gonna pass out, but I do appreciate the discussion.

[Reply] #76
03-27-2015 02:59 AM
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B.J. Titty-Banger
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Rich-616 wrote: monetary control. media control. influence over how people interpret and react to global and social issues. social and financial control via the media, citizens, and banks.



oh look...this again...



Alex Jones is a B-List shock jock who can’t even come up with his own material, and who counts on his audience being too dumb to know hes recycling conspiracy theories from 1903.

With respect to Netanyahu’s reelection, I do believe I detect sour grapes.


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[Reply] #77
03-27-2015 03:04 AM
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Rich-616
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Aaaand right before I log off, Shob comes in implying that I’m declaring anti-Semitic views when I’m talking about three different countries.

Alex is an informed guy and if you weren’t so far gone you’d admit it. Why do you even post here. Just to tell us how great Israel is and how bad Muslims are? Bibi would probably make you an Israel internet soldier, since ya know, that really is a thing. Haha

Edited 03-27-2015 03:08 AM by Rich-616
[Reply] #78
03-27-2015 03:05 AM
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Rich-616 wrote: That’s an idealistic way to look at it. That’s not a goal you achieve without scheming, risky moves and tons of corruption. And as we’ve seen people sometimes are smart, and notice things. They try to be as clever as can be, but even these countries and their intelligence agencies slip up. And they meet resistance. There’s so many factors, I don’t pretend to understand it all but I stand by my opinion of the US, Britain and Israel. There’s clearly smoke to the fire.

I’m gonna pass out, but I do appreciate the discussion.

Honestly their parts as far as I’m aware are in it’s foundation due to the fact all three are involved in some of the problems that are around present day due to past actions. However I don’t think any of them have an active roll in aiding ISIS. Now there may be parties within each country supporting it, that I could believe. however I don’t think the governments as a whole are supporting ISIS in any way.... it doesn’t pay out in the short term, nor the long term.


And I also enjoy these discussions so long as they don’t get out of hand as they are known to. this time around was a lot more enjoyable, and civil, than usual.


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[Reply] #79
03-27-2015 03:07 AM
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If Mohammad(pbuh) was around he’d set those ISIS pigs straight. Too bad they need Jesus more than they need Mohammad.

But really, ISIS is only a threat insofar as they have an ideology that young Muslims can get behind. If you just divided them like the Suunis and the Shias only radicalized they would take care of themselves.

[Reply] #80
03-27-2015 03:09 AM
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Rich-616
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@Peth: I can definitely respect that, and that’s more what I think.

Who knows, maybe more NSA documents will be leaked and we might get more info.

Edited 03-27-2015 03:10 AM by Rich-616

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