Remember me
[Forgot password?] [Register]
[Login]
menu

Is it rape if a man uses blackmail to get sex?

<< First < Prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next > Last >>

[Reply] #101
01-11-2015 11:23 PM
Joined: 12-18-2011
Posts: 47,057
offline
Atheist
Atheist
Addict (beyond 1337)
Rep: 260

Caliborn wrote:

Yami Bakura wrote:

Caliborn wrote: Blackmail is like, exposing pictures of somebody crossdressing or something.


Is there something you need to tell us lol

No there isn’t because I made it clear and I’m not ashamed of any part.

huh?

[Reply] #102
01-11-2015 11:26 PM
Joined: 04-30-2009
Posts: 9,125
offline
Lucina
Lucina
Addict (beyond 1337)
Rep: 142

No.


__________________

[Reply] #103
01-11-2015 11:29 PM
El Matas
Guest

Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to grasp?

This is pretty straight forward:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/decode/11/5/II/773

" (a) A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when the person intentionally engages in sexual intercourse with another person and any of the following circumstances exist:
(1) The sexual intercourse occurs without the victim’s consent and during the commission of the crime, or during the immediate flight following the commission of the crime, or during an attempt to prevent the reporting of the crime, the person causes physical injury or serious mental or emotional injury to the victim; or
(2) The sexual intercourse occurs without the victim’s consent and it was facilitated by or occurred during the course of the commission or attempted commission of:
a. Any felony; or
b. Any of the following misdemeanors: reckless endangering in the second degree; assault in the third degree; terroristic threatening; unlawfully administering drugs; unlawful imprisonment in the second degree; coercion; or criminal trespass in the first, second or third degree; or "

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/decode/11/5/II/776

" A person is guilty of sexual extortion when the person intentionally compels or induces another person to engage in any sexual act involving contact, penetration or intercourse with the person or another or others by means of instilling in the victim a fear that, if such sexual act is not performed, the defendant or another will:
(1) Cause physical injury to anyone;
(2) Cause damage to property;
(3) Engage in other conduct constituting a crime;
(4) Accuse anyone of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against anyone;
(5) Expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, intending to subject anyone to hatred, contempt or ridicule;
(6) Falsely testify or provide information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another’s legal claim or defense; or
(7) Perform any other act which is calculated to harm another person materially with respect to the other person’s health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Sexual exploitation is a class E felony. "


Icelus wrote:
Unless the individual who is being blackmailed does not have full control of their mental faculties (in other words, unless they are mentally retarded or insane),


That’s the thing, if the person being extorted feels like they don’t have any other option other than doing what it is demanded of them; then they’re not in their mental faculties.
And in some cases the court appoints a psychologist to verify what the person is true.

Phob wrote:
it doesn’t matter if they “think” they don’t have a choice.


LOL, yes it does. This type of thing happens often for less.

Phob wrote:
The very premise of extortion in this regard is frying pan and fire; contingent on how one might be affected by the extortioner publicizing the information they have knowledge of, the extorted party is likely to act accept (or reject).


This isn’t just extortion, it’s sexual extortion; there is a difference.

Phob wrote:
Regardless of how undesirable the choice may be, decision remains a factor, and thus “rape” is not a legitimate term.


When there is another factor like lets say blackmail, then your decisions will naturally be different. And in the court of law this is taken into account.

Phob wrote:
Deriving sexual intercourse through the use of blackmail is as morally incorrect as rape, of course; however, it is logically, semantically, and legally differentiable.


I’m glad we agree that sexual extortion is bad.



Phob wrote:
How would I blackmail you if I didn’t have something on you?

Compare the following...
* “You cheated on your spouse and I know it."
* “You killed that woman last summer."
* “I’m sure your father would be interested to know about your letter detailing how to abuse his will."
...with the following.
* “I know you littered seven years ago!"
* “You put down your dog, you bastard!"
* “Your favorite color is brown; simply hideous, so do what I say or everyone will know.“


How relevant or irrelevant the blackmail is, is irrelevant. What matters is what the person being extorted thinks about it.

Phob wrote:
Blackmail does not work unless the blackmailer has something “dirty” on the person they are blackmailing. (except in rare cases where the fault would actually be of the person to whom the fact being told would be most damaging, but that’s not the point).


Blackmail is still blackmail. You can’t just say that the blackmail is irrelevant if it’s not “dirty”.

Phob wrote:
It doesn’t matter legally (retaliation for such exposed crimes or attempted crimes notwithstanding), but it is certainly different from rape, no?


Again where are you getting your info?

[Reply] #104
01-11-2015 11:39 PM
Joined: 04-28-2014
Posts: 1,642
offline
Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa
Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 27

did OP admit to being a rapist?


__________________

mai animu liste

[Reply] #105
01-11-2015 11:43 PM
El Matas
Guest

Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa wrote: did OP admit to being a rapist?


He’s pretty close:
" Is it rape if a man uses blackmail to get sex? "
“Honest question that I can’t find an answer for. Is it legally rape? If so or not do you agree?"

[Reply] #106
01-11-2015 11:51 PM
Joined: 04-28-2014
Posts: 1,642
offline
Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa
Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 27

El Matas wrote:

Asian Reporter Tricia Takanawa wrote: did OP admit to being a rapist?


He’s pretty close:
" Is it rape if a man uses blackmail to get sex? "
“Honest question that I can’t find an answer for. Is it legally rape? If so or not do you agree?“



he’s either admitting he’s done it or is thinking of doing it cause he can’t get poon any other way


__________________

mai animu liste

[Reply] #107
01-11-2015 11:54 PM
Joined: 08-07-2008
Posts: 38,094
offline
Psychopeth
Psychopeth
Addict (beyond 1337)
Rep: 312

El Matas wrote: Why is this such a hard concept for you guys to grasp?

This is pretty straight forward:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/decode/11/5/II/773

" (a) A person is guilty of rape in the first degree when the person intentionally engages in sexual intercourse with another person and any of the following circumstances exist:
(1) The sexual intercourse occurs without the victim’s consent and during the commission of the crime, or during the immediate flight following the commission of the crime, or during an attempt to prevent the reporting of the crime, the person causes physical injury or serious mental or emotional injury to the victim; or
(2) The sexual intercourse occurs without the victim’s consent and it was facilitated by or occurred during the course of the commission or attempted commission of:
a. Any felony; or
b. Any of the following misdemeanors: reckless endangering in the second degree; assault in the third degree; terroristic threatening; unlawfully administering drugs; unlawful imprisonment in the second degree; coercion; or criminal trespass in the first, second or third degree; or "

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/decode/11/5/II/776

" A person is guilty of sexual extortion when the person intentionally compels or induces another person to engage in any sexual act involving contact, penetration or intercourse with the person or another or others by means of instilling in the victim a fear that, if such sexual act is not performed, the defendant or another will:
(1) Cause physical injury to anyone;
(2) Cause damage to property;
(3) Engage in other conduct constituting a crime;
(4) Accuse anyone of a crime or cause criminal charges to be instituted against anyone;
(5) Expose a secret or publicize an asserted fact, whether true or false, intending to subject anyone to hatred, contempt or ridicule;
(6) Falsely testify or provide information or withhold testimony or information with respect to another’s legal claim or defense; or
(7) Perform any other act which is calculated to harm another person materially with respect to the other person’s health, safety, business, calling, career, financial condition, reputation or personal relationships.
Sexual exploitation is a class E felony. "

how are you saying it’s hard for me to grasp when I was pointing out that it’s sexual exploitation to use blackmail...

It’s not rape by it’s classifications as you yourself have outlined.


__________________

[Reply] #108
01-11-2015 11:57 PM
Joined: 05-22-2011
Posts: 21,211
offline
Unimaginably Heterosexual Gentleman
Unimaginably Heterosexual Gentleman
The Lightness™
Rep: 182

Umm, extortion is decidedly not the same thing as rape.

Since you aren’t getting it, let’s take rape out of the picture entirely. Hypothetically speaking, let’s say I cheated on my girl whilst extremely wasted. Some asshole -- like assholes do -- saw an opportunity and he took it. He snapped some pics of the dirty deed. He then sent me those pics and gave me an ultimatum: Steal from my next-door neighbor or he goes full tattletale-mode. So, now, I’m faced with an internal dilemma -- to steal, or not to steal. What you don’t realize is that it’s all on me. If I willingly (albeit simultaneously unwillingly) steal my neighbor’s flatscreen, that’s my own decision. I might’ve been coerced, but I wasn’t forced. Similarly, being blackmailed into having sex is, by definition, different from rape.


__________________

Gran Autismo wrote: I would die for the sake of this site.

Edited 01-11-2015 11:59 PM by Unimaginably Heterosexual Gentleman
[Reply] #109
01-11-2015 11:58 PM
Joined: 07-16-2013
Posts: 4,618
offline
E.O.S
E.O.S
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 77

If i’m not mistaken people have been convicted for sexual assault for blackmailing people to get sexual favors, but I don’t know about rape.


__________________

Edited 01-11-2015 11:59 PM by E.O.S
[Reply] #110
01-12-2015 02:16 AM
Joined: 05-21-2013
Posts: 1,176
offline
Macho
Macho
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 26

I’ll post this - which I had to type- for now and let Shob give input, then I’ll come back.
“Rape by Fraud and Rape by Coercion”

“These new statutory enactments cluster around five organizational themes, provisions that outlaw sexual penetration or contact accomplished by: (1) abuse of trust, (2) abuse of authority, (3) fraud, [b](4) coercion, and (5) nonconsent. The first category carves out for special treatment defined groups of potential offenders who abuse positions of trust and have access to vulnerable victims, e.g., medical personnel. The second prohibits sexual conduct when the criminal actor abuses a position of authority over victim, e.g., a prison guard. The third group specifically outlaws the use of fraud or deception in securing sexual compliance. The fourth substitutes coercion or other types of nonphysical pressure for the traditional requirement of physical force. Finally, the fight class simply punishes nonconsensual intercourse without reference to force, fraud, or coercion." (Falk 91)


__________________


“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
“I’m your huckleberry.”- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #111
01-12-2015 11:06 AM
Joined: 11-30-2010
Posts: 36,201
offline
Wolfey
Wolfey
Addict (beyond 1337)
Rep: 211

Again, what you’re talking about, Matador, replays the post I made in regards to the disctinction the law makes between robbery and extortion. Let me re-iterate: the distinction lies entirely on the conduct between subjects.

Robbery is a practice of subtraction, in the face of use of violence or grave threat by the agent. Ex: a thief points a gun at an old lady and takes her purse. In this case, the agent practices the conduct. Nothing she could really do about it, he just came, took and went.

Extortion is the practice of coercion where the agent employs of grave threat or violence to obtain something. Ex: A criminal approaches someone in a car and declares: “hand over the car or die”, in this case, the victim was coerced to deliver a viced manifestation of will, however, the fact is he still surrenders the car to the perpetrator. In-fact, many confuse extortion with robbey in the common vernacular.

Now, at face value, the disctinction doesn’t seem meaningful, but notice the nuance of the matter;

In a robbery, the perpetrator may very well take the desired object with or without the victim’s compliance or aid. In extortion, the crime depends on the victim’s compliance as the passive subject to carry out the criminal intent in full, for the crime to be realized.

If there is no compliance in extortion, there is no extortion, only the fact that a consequence might entail. In sum, the difference lies in the level of autonomy given to the victim as a passive subject with a viced manifestation of will, versus the fact of robbery, where there is no passive subject necessary for the crime in question to occur.

Do you see the subtle difference? Its an important one in law theory, as well, as a manifestation of will which produced juridical affects at first onset was a valid one at first onset by simple virtue of the production of those affects; however viced. Laws distinguish between one which needs compliance from the victim in coming to be, and those which don’t. There’s an implication of cumplicity in sexual extortion that doesn’t exist in outright rape. There is always a form of “dialogue” between the subjects, passive and active, in extortion, and in rape, that does not exist in legal terms.

Now, let’s apply that to the legislation on rape and sexual extortion.

Rape wrote: The sexual intercourse occurs without the victim’s consent



Sexual Extortion wrote: A person is guilty of sexual extortion when the person intentionally compels or induces another person to engage in any sexual act involving contact, penetration or intercourse with the person or another or others by means of instilling in the victim a fear that, if such sexual act is not performed, the defendant or another will:



In-fact, the same distinction seems to be made between them. One deals with the vice of consent, and the other deals with simple taking and domination, where there isn’t the legal defition of a possible “dialogue” between subjects. Viced consent, in the eys of the law, is viced consent. It may be done under pressure and thus viced, but its, by nature of definition, a form of consent. When, in cases of rape, the crime will be perpetuated with or without viced consent.

And that’s why we differentiate between these types of cases, I’d imagine.

Look, I’m not saying that a Common Law judge wouldn’t look at certain cases, like a girl having a gun to her head and being asked to blow a guy or die, and won’t be sympathetic towards her plight and give the guy a rape charge on top of sexual extortion, but the legal distinction between a situation where the refusal of a victim, however harsh the penalties, is possible, against one where it isn’t possible, is very clearly drawn. I agree that a Common Law judge would probably give a guy like the one I just mentioned a rape charge, but he’d be using arguments not from pure legislation, but from jurisprudence.

Ultimately, if a judge decided in a case of blackmail where the girl had continuous sex with someone practicing sexual extortion in the nature of he’d tell everyone some dirty secret or something, the judge would be justified in filing for sexual extortion charges, rather than rape, under the law.

Edited 01-12-2015 11:21 AM by Wolfey
[Reply] #112
01-12-2015 12:02 PM
Joined: 08-05-2010
Posts: 27,699
offline
-Sheko-
-Sheko-
science bitch!
Rep: 270

Caliborn wrote:

Yami Bakura wrote:

Caliborn wrote: Blackmail is like, exposing pictures of somebody crossdressing or something.


Is there something you need to tell us lol

No there isn’t because I made it clear and I’m not ashamed of any part.

oh wow

[Reply] #113
01-12-2015 12:03 PM
Joined: 12-13-2010
Posts: 16,551
offline
Souls
Souls
Pure
Rep: 256

I can’t remember if I posted in this thread or not.

But no


__________________

[Reply] #114
01-12-2015 12:06 PM
Joined: 08-05-2010
Posts: 27,699
offline
-Sheko-
-Sheko-
science bitch!
Rep: 270

Why are you guys having a conversation with Shitador? Dude wants to exterminate entire races. lol

[Reply] #115
01-12-2015 12:31 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

The threshold question in rape law is consent; if there is no consent or if consent is obtained by unlawful means, its a rape. There have been some bizzare cases on what constitutes “unlawful means”. (old british case; it is rape to impersonate a woman’s husband and trick her into sleeping with you by means of identity fraud). I don’t think i’ve ever seen a blackmail case.


__________________

[Reply] #116
01-12-2015 12:34 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

The Model Penal Code suggests the way to approach such cases is with a first/second/third degree tiering system. Violent rape would be a first degree offense, with lesser charges for lesser degrees of wrongfulness. Seems like a reasonable way to do it.


__________________

Edited 01-12-2015 12:35 PM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #117
01-12-2015 12:45 PM
Joined: 12-18-2011
Posts: 47,057
offline
Atheist
Atheist
Addict (beyond 1337)
Rep: 260

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote: (old british case; it is rape to impersonate a woman’s husband and trick her into sleeping with you by means of identity fraud).

Was she blind? Retarded?

[Reply] #118
01-12-2015 01:46 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

Atheist wrote:

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote: (old british case; it is rape to impersonate a woman’s husband and trick her into sleeping with you by means of identity fraud).

Was she blind? Retarded?

was having sex with her husband in a dark room. The husband walked out and another dude walked in + continued.


__________________

[Reply] #119
01-12-2015 01:47 PM
Joined: 08-07-2014
Posts: 4,696
offline
Amorphous
Amorphous
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 51

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote:

Atheist wrote:

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote: (old british case; it is rape to impersonate a woman’s husband and trick her into sleeping with you by means of identity fraud).

Was she blind? Retarded?

was having sex with her husband in a dark room. The husband walked out and another dude walked in + continued.

So... her vision was kept from clearly seeing the sloppy second’s face?


__________________


This is only temporary...

Edited 01-12-2015 01:47 PM by Amorphous
[Reply] #120
01-12-2015 01:50 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

Amorphous wrote:

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote:

Atheist wrote:

B.J. Titty-Banger wrote: (old british case; it is rape to impersonate a woman’s husband and trick her into sleeping with you by means of identity fraud).

Was she blind? Retarded?

was having sex with her husband in a dark room. The husband walked out and another dude walked in + continued.

So... her vision was kept from clearly seeing the sloppy second’s face?

yeah. Cases like this pop up from time to time. (There was a california one back in 2013)


__________________

<< First < Prev 3 4 5 [6] 7 Next > Last >>

New Reply
Name (guest):

For faster posting and no restrictions: [Login] [Register]

Message:


 
 

[More Options] [New Topic]
Moderated by: Phobetius, Zeroextra, - FS -, Admins, Superusers [All moderators]
The Lounge Forums ©Silicon.dk ApS 2012 - Privacy Policy - Disclaimer - FAQ - Contact