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Is it rape if a man uses blackmail to get sex?

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[Reply] #81
01-11-2015 04:56 PM
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It isn’t rape, because they can refuse it.

[Reply] #82
01-11-2015 07:06 PM
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It’s sleazy, but I wouldn’t call it rape. No one forced her to do anything.


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[Reply] #83
01-11-2015 07:07 PM
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What made you ask this question btw?


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[Reply] #84
01-11-2015 07:43 PM
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Yami Bakura
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Caliborn wrote: Blackmail is like, exposing pictures of somebody crossdressing or something.


Is there something you need to tell us lol


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[Reply] #85
01-11-2015 09:07 PM
Les Matadorss
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Ozymandias wrote: You’re all really, really stupid.

Rape: unlawful sexual intercourse or any other sexual penetration of the vagina, anus, or mouth of another person, with or without force, by a sex organ, other body part, or foreign object, without the consent of the victim.

Key words: “Without the consent."

Even if you are being coerced into aforementioned sex, you are essentially giving consent. That is to say, you’re choosing to have sex with someone you don’t want to in exchange for, say, them not revealing you had an affair. So, no, it’s not actually rape. It’s just really fucking sleazy.


Rape is making someone have sex with you, when they don’t want to.

So you missed the point, rape can be with force or without the use of force.

“A crime at common law defined as unlawful sexual intercourse with a woman by a man without her consent and by means of fear or force."

People that are blackmail can feel fear and thus are being forced to have sex. You don’t have to necessarily grab them and hold them down and do it. I’m sure that most judges using common law would also consider blackmailing for sex as rape.

[Reply] #86
01-11-2015 09:18 PM
Les Matadorss
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Just to add to my point: if a guy has a gun to x female and he gives her the option to consent or get blown, does mean it’s not rape?
Of course it is, so why should one illegal act be any different than another with the end purpose of sex?

[Reply] #87
01-11-2015 09:19 PM
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Les Matadorss wrote: Just to add to my point: if a guy has a gun to x female and he gives her the option to consent or get blown, does mean it’s not rape?
Of course it is, so why should one illegal act be any different than another with the end purpose of sex?

the same reason theft and murder are different.


one is threatening one’s wealth/status, the other threatens one’s life.


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[Reply] #88
01-11-2015 09:51 PM
Les Matadorss
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Fluffle Puff wrote:

Les Matadorss wrote: Just to add to my point: if a guy has a gun to x female and he gives her the option to consent or get blown, does mean it’s not rape?
Of course it is, so why should one illegal act be any different than another with the end purpose of sex?

the same reason theft and murder are different.


one is threatening one’s wealth/status, the other threatens one’s life.


The end result is still the same- you obtain something illegally.
In this case you get sex by force/illegal activities.

[Reply] #89
01-11-2015 09:53 PM
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Les Matadorss wrote:

Fluffle Puff wrote:

Les Matadorss wrote: Just to add to my point: if a guy has a gun to x female and he gives her the option to consent or get blown, does mean it’s not rape?
Of course it is, so why should one illegal act be any different than another with the end purpose of sex?

the same reason theft and murder are different.


one is threatening one’s wealth/status, the other threatens one’s life.


The end result is still the same- you obtain something illegally.
In this case you get sex by force/illegal activities.



Except we find murder more heinous than theft.


If you can’t even see that I don’t even see the point in attempting to explain it to you.


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[Reply] #90
01-11-2015 10:01 PM
Les Matadorss
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Fluffle Puff wrote:
Except we find murder more heinous than theft.


If you can’t even see that I don’t even see the point in attempting to explain it to you.


I get what you’re saying but that has nothing to do with what I was referring to when I said illegal act.
What I meant by illegal act was blackmail and assault in order to get sex.
Both in the end have consent based on fear and thus force; which is rape.
So the consent wasn’t and isn’t valid.
Do you understand what I mean?

[Reply] #91
01-11-2015 10:05 PM
Les Matadorss
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And it doesn’t matter what we think is more “heinous” because they’re both illegal acts. You guys seem to think this is a non factor, but in reality it is very important.

[Reply] #92
01-11-2015 10:06 PM
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Les Matadorss wrote:

Fluffle Puff wrote:
Except we find murder more heinous than theft.


If you can’t even see that I don’t even see the point in attempting to explain it to you.


I get what you’re saying but that has nothing to do with what I was referring to when I said illegal act.
What I meant by illegal act was blackmail and assault in order to get sex.
Both in the end have consent based on fear and thus force; which is rape.
So the consent wasn’t and isn’t valid.
Do you understand what I mean?

With blackmail no matter how socially/legally damaging the secret is you always still have the choice to walk away.

Kinda different than when someone is holding a gun to your head telling you to suck or die.

How would the consent not be valid? I’d see your point if they were drunk, off the shits, or retarded.

[Reply] #93
01-11-2015 10:13 PM
Les Matadorss
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King Smiley wrote: With blackmail no matter how socially/legally damaging the secret is you always still have the choice to walk away.


Not everyone thinks like that.

KS wrote:
Kinda different than when someone is holding a gun to your head telling you to suck or die.

How would the consent not be valid? I’d see your point if they were drunk, off the shits, or retarded.


Because you’re obtaining sex via blackmail -which is an illegal actions.

[Reply] #94
01-11-2015 10:14 PM
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Les Matadorss wrote: And it doesn’t matter what we think is more “heinous” because they’re both illegal acts. You guys seem to think this is a non factor, but in reality it is very important.

actually it’s the opposite in terms of how we’re dealing with this.


The fact is how is it going to be qualified under the court of law in order to figure out how much punishment is issued.

Extortion and rape are very different under the court of law.


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[Reply] #95
01-11-2015 10:17 PM
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Blackmail is still extortion, which entails the existence of a choice (regardless of how poor the alternative to the action desired by the extortioner may seem). It doesn’t matter “how” people think; they still have the choice of doing what is demanded or being legally, socially, and/or otherwise injured.

Blackmail also only tends to work when the individual it is being utilized against engaged in an act that was morally (and often legally) questionable, so there is also that to consider.


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[Reply] #96
01-11-2015 10:20 PM
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It’s only rape if one of the participants is completely unwilling to get down. I don’t think blackmailing someone into having sex with them could be considered rape

[Reply] #97
01-11-2015 10:24 PM
Les Matadorss
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Fluffle Puff wrote: actually it’s the opposite in terms of how we’re dealing with this.


The fact is how is it going to be qualified under the court of law in order to figure out how much punishment is issued.

Extortion and rape are very different under the court of law.


I already discussed this with wolf, someone that actually knows about law and we couldn’t see a difference between sexual extortion and rape.
I do agree that they might have different punishment but then again this is a given.

[Reply] #98
01-11-2015 10:33 PM
Les Matadorss
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Icelus wrote: Blackmail is still extortion, which entails the existence of a choice (regardless of how poor the alternative to the action desired by the extortioner may seem). It doesn’t matter “how” people think; they still have the choice of doing what is demanded or being legally, socially, and/or otherwise injured.


It does matter, I don’t understand (assuming you’ve studied law) why you are saying it doesn’t.

Phob wrote:
Blackmail also only tends to work when the individual it is being utilized against engaged in an act that was morally (and often legally) questionable, so there is also that to consider.


Why would you say that?

And even if that were the case it wouldn’t matter.

[Reply] #99
01-11-2015 10:47 PM
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Les Matadorss wrote: It does matter, I don’t understand (assuming you’ve studied law) why you are saying it doesn’t.


Unless the individual who is being blackmailed does not have full control of their mental faculties (in other words, unless they are mentally retarded or insane), it doesn’t matter if they “think” they don’t have a choice. The very premise of extortion in this regard is frying pan and fire; contingent on how one might be affected by the extortioner publicizing the information they have knowledge of, the extorted party is likely to act accept (or reject).

Regardless of how undesirable the choice may be, decision remains a factor, and thus “rape” is not a legitimate term. Deriving sexual intercourse through the use of blackmail is as morally incorrect as rape, of course; however, it is logically, semantically, and legally differentiable.

Why would you say that?

And even if that were the case it wouldn’t matter.


How would I blackmail you if I didn’t have something on you?

Compare the following...
* “You cheated on your spouse and I know it."
* “You killed that woman last summer."
* “I’m sure your father would be interested to know about your letter detailing how to abuse his will."
...with the following.
* “I know you littered seven years ago!"
* “You put down your dog, you bastard!"
* “Your favorite color is brown; simply hideous, so do what I say or everyone will know."

Blackmail does not work unless the blackmailer has something “dirty” on the person they are blackmailing. (except in rare cases where the fault would actually be of the person to whom the fact being told would be most damaging, but that’s not the point).

It doesn’t matter legally (retaliation for such exposed crimes or attempted crimes notwithstanding), but it is certainly different from rape, no?


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Edited 01-11-2015 10:51 PM by Icelus
[Reply] #100
01-11-2015 11:21 PM
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Yami Bakura wrote:

Caliborn wrote: Blackmail is like, exposing pictures of somebody crossdressing or something.


Is there something you need to tell us lol

No there isn’t because I made it clear and I’m not ashamed of any part.


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