Remember me
[Forgot password?] [Register]
[Login]
menu

Economic systems and other absurdities

<< First < Prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Next > Last >>

[Reply] #41
01-04-2015 03:01 PM
Joined: 04-06-2013
Posts: 10,891
offline
The Ancient Apocalypse
The Ancient Apocalypse
Dungeon Master
Rep: 114

Van Hohenheim NLI wrote:
No that’s not at all what I’m saying nor have I implied this.

This was a social experiment to see how people behaved when an say a pencil had the value of zero, opposed to having a price- of say 5 cents.

What the data showed was that when the pencil had a set (5 cents) monetary price- people would take much more pencils because social norms were thrown out the window.

But when the price was zero- there was a higher amount of people going to take a pencil but would take less pencils than when there was a set price.

Why? Because when the price was zero, other people, took into consideration social norms; money eradicated the notion of social norms.



None of what you just said addressed what I said. Unless the scientists told the people taking the pencils that others would need whatever they left behind then there’s nothing social about the experiment. When something has a monetary price attached to it it is perceived to have a higher intrinsic value than something that is given away for free. There’s nothing there that implies that the monetary system is the problem itself.


__________________

[Reply] #42
01-04-2015 09:17 PM
Joined: 05-21-2013
Posts: 1,185
offline
Macho
Macho
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 26

The Ancient Apocalypse wrote:
None of what you just said addressed what I said.


That’s because the original post and thread haves little - if anything at all - to do with what you said.

TAA wrote:
Unless the scientists told the people taking the pencils that others would need whatever they left behind then there’s nothing social about the experiment.


That would defeat the purpose of the experiment; the experiment was meant to analyse what people would do when money was a factor vs money is not a factor based on social norm. Telling the people that this was a social experiment - or worse, telling them: “others would need whatever they left behind”, would completely destroy the experiment because it would affect the outcome.

Telling them that this was an experiment would be akin to telling the girls from this video they were being used in a social experiment:


The Ancient Apocalypse wrote: “What kind of girl do you think I am?"
“Oh, this is your car?"
Buahahahahaha.



TAA wrote:
When something has a monetary price attached to it it is perceived to have a higher intrinsic value than something that is given away for free.


That wasn’t what the professors were testing. But lets amuse this notion a bit further.

There are two major points I would like to address with this faulty logic:
First; If people considered free objects as less valuable in anyway shape or form, then that would mean two things: one; there would be less people going to get pencils. Second; Following the logic of my last remark - this would contradict the data, which was: There was a greater of people stopping by to take a pencil.

Second; You are ignoring the two other points - either by ignorance or malice.
The first point; people love free things, especially in America (where this experiment was conducted), in fact they flock towards free things no matter how frivolous they are.
Second point; If the object was clearly valuable - like a car- people wouldn’t register how invaluable it is (going by your logic) because it is clearly valuable.

Lastly, the notion that free equals less valuable is absurd when you take into account the laws of demand: 1st; price drop equals more demand and 2nd; more demand equals higher amount sold.

If the price of a car dropped from $40,000 dollars to $5,000 dollars, people don’t go think about the quality of the object; all they think about is buy, buy, and buy.

TAA wrote:
There’s nothing there that implies that the monetary system is the problem itself.


It seems like that is the case, even if you can’t see it.
What Dr. Ariely closing statement said about this topic:

“In essence, when prices are zero and social norms are a part of the equation, people look at the world as a communal good. The important lesson from all of this? Not mentioning prices ushers in social norms, and with those social norms, we start caring more about others." (Ariely 14)


__________________


“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #43
01-05-2015 07:18 AM
Joined: 05-16-2014
Posts: 576
offline
Mister Atlas
Mister Atlas
Regular
Rep: 38

Capitalism: God’s way of determining who is smart and who is poor.


__________________

[Reply] #44
01-05-2015 07:23 AM
Joined: 03-25-2011
Posts: 13,322
offline
Jurassic DIO
Jurassic DIO
Fabulous lizard man
Rep: 147

Machampion100 wrote: Capitalism: God’s way of determining who is smart and who is poor.


So are all those little children in Africa poor because your imaginary friend wants so?wow,what a fucking asshole.


__________________

[Reply] #45
01-05-2015 07:27 AM
Joined: 05-16-2014
Posts: 576
offline
Mister Atlas
Mister Atlas
Regular
Rep: 38

Maybe they should try a little harder. Like me, a Capitalist.


__________________

[Reply] #46
01-05-2015 07:55 AM
Joined: 03-25-2011
Posts: 13,322
offline
Jurassic DIO
Jurassic DIO
Fabulous lizard man
Rep: 147

Implying they have any chance to try harder lol. Sayin they have a chance to try harder is lik saying a newborn Rabbit has a chance of escaping from a pack of wolves.


__________________

[Reply] #47
01-07-2015 01:13 AM
Joined: 05-21-2013
Posts: 1,185
offline
Macho
Macho
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 26

Machampion100 wrote: Capitalism: God’s way of determining who is smart and who is poor.


I’m guessing god didn’t favor you.

This is a serious topic, so stop it with your nonsense.


__________________


“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #48
01-07-2015 08:53 AM
Joined: 05-16-2014
Posts: 576
offline
Mister Atlas
Mister Atlas
Regular
Rep: 38

@Van Hohenheim

I am serious. With capitalism the sky is the limit. At the end of the day its all on YOU to prosper. Thats why so many of you cry baby losers hate it. Because in a capitalist system nothing is handed to you. You must WORK for it. You preach socialism as if it means anything. Why do you think communism and socialism has failed? In those systems the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor. Yet, in a capitalistic society there are MANY from rags to riches stories. Wealth is a mind set. If you want to be rich you will find a way to be rich. If you sit around and bitch about being poor or shit on then guess what, you’re going to be poor and keep getting shit on. Where there is a WILL there is a WAY. Now go cry about this topic to your boyfriend.


__________________

[Reply] #49
01-11-2015 11:54 PM
Van Hohenheim NLI
Guest

This is the last time I respond to you.

Machampion100 wrote: @Van Hohenheim

I am serious. With capitalism the sky is the limit. At the end of the day its all on YOU to prosper. Thats why so many of you cry baby losers hate it. Because in a capitalist system nothing is handed to you. You must WORK for it.


Your notion of working hard = success, is a pretty naive idea that nobody with a functional brain would agree with.

M wrote:
You preach socialism as if it means anything. Why do you think communism and socialism has failed? In those systems the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.


Socialism is working just fine in countries that are better off than the USA.

M wrote:
Yet, in a capitalistic society there are MANY from rags to riches stories. Wealth is a mind set. If you want to be rich you will find a way to be rich. If you sit around and bitch about being poor or shit on then guess what, you’re going to be poor and keep getting shit on. Where there is a WILL there is a WAY. Now go cry about this topic to your boyfriend.


Go preach this to someone that will believe it.

[Reply] #50
01-20-2015 11:18 AM
Joined: 05-16-2014
Posts: 576
offline
Mister Atlas
Mister Atlas
Regular
Rep: 38

So according to you. Dont work hard because working hard doesnt work so be a socialist and dont work at all. Sounds like a lazy cry baby to me.

Lets see... China, Cuba and Vietnam (socialist countries) Gee look at the wonders and freedomes those countries have. Thats why so many people flock to those countries because of socialism... LOL.

Capitalism > Socialism.

I accept your cessation.


__________________

[Reply] #51
01-20-2015 11:49 AM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

China is commie in name only. They have an authoritarian one-party government that still calls itself the communist party, but a capitalist economic system.


__________________

Edited 01-20-2015 11:50 AM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #52
01-20-2015 12:01 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

Theres rags-to-riches stories in socialism to. The difference is in capitalism, you get there by being educated and developing marketable skills or being innovative and making something that people want to buy. And in socialism, you get there by being a loyal footsoldier for “the party” and working your way up the beauracratic ladder. Socialism doesn’t get rid of inequity. The politbureau replaces the wallstreet types as the wealthy elite. And they become even more abusive because they don’t need to buy lobbiests to protect their wealth. They own everything AND they make the laws.


__________________

Edited 01-20-2015 12:04 PM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #53
01-22-2015 07:43 PM
Joined: 05-21-2013
Posts: 1,185
offline
Macho
Macho
UBER 1337 Poster
Rep: 26

Socialism, is not, Communism.

And I’m sure people living in:

Denmark
Finland
Netherlands
Canada
Sweden
Norway
Ireland
New Zealand
Belgium

have such a thriving country because they’re not socialist.


__________________


“If I don’t, then who will!“-Goku
Im your huckleberry.- Doc Holiday
From me to you. Choke on it.- Kid Trunks

[Reply] #54
01-23-2015 08:10 AM
Joined: 05-16-2014
Posts: 576
offline
Mister Atlas
Mister Atlas
Regular
Rep: 38

Yeah but you exlude the large amount of taxes they pay, the schools, jobs and professions they can and cant go into based on test scores. You lose economic freedom, the standard of living in most of those countries are lower. In a capitalistic society, like the USA you have higher average disposable and gross income than those countries. The cost of living is a lot lower in capitalistic countries as well.


__________________

[Reply] #55
01-23-2015 11:48 AM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

Machampion100 wrote: Yeah but you exlude the large amount of taxes they pay, the schools, jobs and professions they can and cant go into based on test scores. You lose economic freedom, the standard of living in most of those countries are lower. In a capitalistic society, like the USA you have higher average disposable and gross income than those countries. The cost of living is a lot lower in capitalistic countries as well.



No it isn’t. Every single one of the listed countries ranks higher than America on the standard-of-living index.

Countries at the top of the index are capitalist countries with strong public sector ( i.e. “socialized” ) healthcare and higher education + living wage laws.

...such that you can work paycheck-to-paycheck without a single hospitalization bankrupting you and destroying your livelihood.

...such that a man of ordinary means can go to school and get an advanced degree and climb the ladder to success without accumulating student loans that will have them buried in debt for the rest of their working life.

...and such that if you’re putting in your 40 hours per week and being a productive member of society, you can comfortably support yourself with the fruit of your own labor.

Thats how you do it.(America has a long way to go. Our system use to be the best, then it stagnated while the world around us advanced, and now we’re living in a nostalgia bubble where in our heads we’re still at the top of the curve. But we aren’t, and haven’t been for a long time)

Thats an indictment of our politics. Not an indictment of capitalism.


__________________

Edited 01-23-2015 11:49 AM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #56
01-28-2015 07:52 PM
Joined: 08-06-2010
Posts: 577
offline
Phobophage
Phobophage
Regular
Rep: 21

Let’s go one deeper...why is money even a thing? It doesn’t need to be, never did. As a picture I can’t seem to find anymore once put it, “What’s the big deal, it’s just paper with pictures of old people on it."

This idea of “Nah, animals are greedy anyways without money”...um, no not that badly they aren’t. They fight for necessities like food, not like us, who fight over constructs we made to obstruct ourselves from necessities. That’s a step above the rest of the animals, I must say.

To me, it seems there are, at the least, certain things that were never meant to be charged for, if we must insist on having currency. The big 3 being food, education, and healthcare. Keeping ourselves well and performing at a high rate, why did that become a business? Why did basic life necessities like food become business? And why does the job of preparing the next generation to advance and thrive have to be a business? It’s ridiculous, and no wonder the human race is stagnating with so much imbalance. We have insane amounts of wealth in the hands of greedy fucks who use it for nothing other than gaining more, and on the other hand we have people starving for lack of resources. To put it plainly, I think currency, and economics to an extent, is a large part of what is killing humanity as a whole. It’s an unecessary system.


__________________

[Reply] #57
01-29-2015 05:19 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

The three basic units of wealth are land, labor, and capital. Take away money (i.e. Capital), and human greed becomes a battle for control of land and laborers (as it was for thousands of years before civilization, money, and mercantile exchange). Money does not enhance human greed. It shifts its focus.


__________________

[Reply] #58
01-29-2015 05:25 PM
Joined: 02-16-2014
Posts: 5,101
offline
Renna
Renna
Black White
Rep: 59

Phobophage wrote: Let’s go one deeper...why is money even a thing? It doesn’t need to be, never did. As a picture I can’t seem to find anymore once put it, “What’s the big deal, it’s just paper with pictures of old people on it."

This idea of “Nah, animals are greedy anyways without money”...um, no not that badly they aren’t. They fight for necessities like food, not like us, who fight over constructs we made to obstruct ourselves from necessities. That’s a step above the rest of the animals, I must say.

To me, it seems there are, at the least, certain things that were never meant to be charged for, if we must insist on having currency. The big 3 being food, education, and healthcare. Keeping ourselves well and performing at a high rate, why did that become a business? Why did basic life necessities like food become business? And why does the job of preparing the next generation to advance and thrive have to be a business? It’s ridiculous, and no wonder the human race is stagnating with so much imbalance. We have insane amounts of wealth in the hands of greedy fucks who use it for nothing other than gaining more, and on the other hand we have people starving for lack of resources. To put it plainly, I think currency, and economics to an extent, is a large part of what is killing humanity as a whole. It’s an unecessary system.

Barter isn’t an option, and neither is only having what you can make.


__________________

[Reply] #59
01-29-2015 05:47 PM
Joined: 10-09-2011
Posts: 8,854
offline
B.J. Titty-Banger
B.J. Titty-Banger
The Mayor of Titty-City
Rep: 120

Renna wrote:

Phobophage wrote: Let’s go one deeper...why is money even a thing? It doesn’t need to be, never did. As a picture I can’t seem to find anymore once put it, “What’s the big deal, it’s just paper with pictures of old people on it."

This idea of “Nah, animals are greedy anyways without money”...um, no not that badly they aren’t. They fight for necessities like food, not like us, who fight over constructs we made to obstruct ourselves from necessities. That’s a step above the rest of the animals, I must say.

To me, it seems there are, at the least, certain things that were never meant to be charged for, if we must insist on having currency. The big 3 being food, education, and healthcare. Keeping ourselves well and performing at a high rate, why did that become a business? Why did basic life necessities like food become business? And why does the job of preparing the next generation to advance and thrive have to be a business? It’s ridiculous, and no wonder the human race is stagnating with so much imbalance. We have insane amounts of wealth in the hands of greedy fucks who use it for nothing other than gaining more, and on the other hand we have people starving for lack of resources. To put it plainly, I think currency, and economics to an extent, is a large part of what is killing humanity as a whole. It’s an unecessary system.

Barter isn’t an option, and neither is only having what you can make.

it is...but only in the most primitive societies where the basic necessities (food, clothing, shelter...) are the only things you can barter for. Once society evolves to a level of complexity where you have luxury goods and long distance trade and specialized division-of-labor, you need money as a medium of exchange.


__________________

Edited 01-29-2015 05:48 PM by B.J. Titty-Banger
[Reply] #60
01-31-2015 11:56 PM
Joined: 08-06-2010
Posts: 577
offline
Phobophage
Phobophage
Regular
Rep: 21

Hardly, you just exchange luxury goods...just because the goods change does not mean the means of acquisition do. You want ivory, give me some silver. You want bananas, give me some butter. And so forth. The point being is that it goes from being an acquisition based on ultimately meaningless paper, to one based on things with actual physical and/or sentimental value. If you want my house, you best be ready to fork over some things that are quite possibly important to you, not just the contents of your billionaire wallet or whatnot. Cut back on monopolies, and on the buying of excess shit. It’s real easy to buy shit you don’t need when you are simply throwing paper around, it’s a bit more difficult for most people when you might have to trade off your inherited items for new stuff.


__________________

<< First < Prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 Next > Last >>

New Reply
Name (guest):

For faster posting and no restrictions: [Login] [Register]

Message:


 
 

[More Options] [New Topic]
Moderated by: Raziel, Zeroextra, - FS -, Admins, Superusers [All moderators]
The Lounge Forums ©Silicon.dk ApS 2012 - Privacy Policy - Disclaimer - FAQ - Contact